Somatic Therapy — Why Healing Can Involve the Body
Summary:
Somatic therapy is everywhere right now—but what does it actually mean? Is it just deep breathing, stretching, yoga, or mindfulness? In this eye-opening episode, the counselors at The Counseling Corner break down what somatic therapy really is and why healing sometimes has to involve more than just talking. If you’ve ever felt stress in your shoulders, anxiety in your stomach, or found yourself shutting down in conflict without knowing why, this conversation will help you understand what your body may be trying to say.
Join Dr. Ernie Reilly, LCSW, Dr. Judi Allen, LCSW, and Ale Rios, RMHCI as they explore the deep connection between the mind, body, and nervous system. Together, they explain how somatic therapy helps people become aware of physical sensations, process what’s happening internally, and move toward healing in the present moment. Whether someone is dealing with trauma, anxiety, chronic stress, burnout, or simply feels stuck, this episode reveals why body-based therapy can be such a powerful part of the healing process.
You’ll discover:
Why somatic therapy is more than yoga, exercise, or breathing apps. How the body can carry stress, trauma, and emotional experiences even when the mind understands them. What fight, flight, and freeze responses can look like in everyday life—from sleepless nights to shutting down during conflict. Why some people talk about their pain for years and still feel stuck. How somatic therapy and talk therapy work together rather than compete. Simple ways to begin practicing somatic awareness, grounding, and intentional movement this week.
In a world that trains people to stay busy, override their bodies, and push through stress, what happens when the nervous system never gets a chance to reset? This episode invites listeners to slow down, tune in, and recognize that the body is not the enemy—it may actually hold some of the clearest clues for healing. Sometimes growth begins not by thinking harder, but by listening more closely.
Perfect for anyone navigating trauma, anxiety, emotional shutdown, chronic stress, or burnout—as well as caregivers, therapists, and anyone curious about body-based healing. If you’ve ever thought, “I’ve talked about this for years and still don’t feel better,” this episode may help explain why.
Healing is not just about understanding your story. It is also about helping your body learn that it is finally safe. This episode is a practical, compassionate introduction to somatic therapy—and an invitation to reconnect the mind and body in a way that supports real life healing.
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Transcript:
Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here with Dr. Ernie Reilly, licensed clinical social worker and founder of The Counseling Corner. Today, we're diving into something that's trending in therapy and wellness conversations everywhere, somatic therapy. But what does that term actually mean? Is somatic therapy just stretching, exercise, or yoga? Is it mindfulness, maybe deep breathing? And why are more therapists talking about the nervous system instead of just thoughts or feelings anymore?
Today we're breaking down what body-based therapy really looks like, how it works for anxiety and trauma, and why healing sometimes has to involve more than just talking. To help us unpack that, in addition to Dr. Ernie, we're joined by two experienced therapists from the counseling corner, Dr. Judi Allen, licensed clinical social worker, and Ale Rios, pre-licensed mental health counselor. All three of these counselors are experts and are here to help us understand the cutting edge area of somatic therapy. So let's jump right in. How's everybody doing tonight?
Dr. Judi Allen (06:52.984)
Good to see you, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (06:54.642)
Yes, you as well. It's good to be back. Okay, so I want to jump right in. We have a lot to cover. So segment one, I'm calling our rapid fire reset. I want to start figuring out what somatic therapy is by establishing what it is not. So I'll have a few statements and then each of you can react. My first statement is for you, Dr. Judi. Somatic therapy is basically yoga, stretching, exercise, or mindfulness. Go.
Dr. Judi Allen (07:22.102)
Yes and no. may include, those are the behavioral practices of yoga and stretching and mindfulness and exercise, the physicality, but it's more about being aware of internal body signals and help us to resolve any kind of mental health issues and also being able to develop an internal balance. It focuses on the nervous system. It focuses on physiological integration, not just posture like in yoga.
The word soma, which is where somatics come from, is Greek for the living body. It references the thought, the body, the spirit, all in one. So we focus on the soma, the whole connection of the mind, body, and spirit, not just through these behavioral actions like yoga and stretching or exercise.
Ryan Simpson (08:13.651)
Got it, okay, that's helpful, because actually I was wondering where somatic was coming from, and I gonna ask that later, eventually anyway. All right, so statement two for you, Dr. Ernie. Does somatic therapy replace talk therapy, or are they both effective tools to help people?
Dr. Judi Allen (08:18.392)
I'm
Dr. Ernie (08:29.358)
Well, they're definitely both effective tools. And one thought what Judi was saying is I would say, imagine you said like working out is lifting 25 pound dumbbells. No, but it may include lifting 25 pound dumbbells, right? It may include squatting or doing this or this. It doesn't have to include those necessarily. It can include lots of lots of different things, but it would, it would definitely include stretching the body in some way.
right, working the body out. So, so, so, panic therapy would be all sorts of ways to connect with the body, right? And so talk therapy is all sorts of ways to connect with the mind, right, and the thoughts and what's going on intellectually with you and cognitively with you. So, so it's a great question, but I would say they are not the same thing. They are different things and they don't replace each other. They actually work really well together.
Ryan Simpson (09:01.523)
Got it.
Dr. Ernie (09:27.372)
You don't necessarily have to do them together, but they work really well together. I'd say talk therapy is incredibly powerful. It helps people understand their thoughts, make meaning of their experiences, develop insights and such and healthier ways to think and then choose to behave and operate. But sometimes the body's still carrying around a lot of stuff. Even though we've talked and we've thought through and we've challenged in different ways of
of acting and such, the body is still holding on to stress responses or trauma or all sorts of stuff that's inside the body that somatic therapy can help you connect with and begin to release. maybe talk therapy helps the mind make sense of the past and somatic therapy helps the body stop reliving it. Maybe that's a way of saying it. Yeah, the brain tells a story, you know, what happened and the body remembers how it felt. So both of those things can work really well together.
Ryan Simpson (10:18.29)
Interesting.
Ryan Simpson (10:27.881)
Got it. Okay, I think we're going to dive into that connection a little bit more so I won't belabor the point. Because I definitely want to come back to it though. Statement three for you, Somatic therapy and body-based therapy are really only for trauma survivors.
Ale Rios (10:45.337)
Yeah, I mean in short, no.
It's not only for trauma survivors. I think there's this idea with like, oh, I haven't experienced trauma, so it can't work for me or I won't work for it. And I think too, there's like maybe even how we define trauma, where there are these adverse experiences that test our stress, our resilience, our ability to overcome challenges and obstacles. But sometimes when an obstacle or a challenge is too great, we can end
Ryan Simpson (10:51.794)
Good.
Ale Rios (11:18.405)
having a greater response to it and it can leave a greater impact on us in turn. So not everything in trauma means I have PTSD, that's trauma. So similar with like somatic and body-based therapies, you don't need to reach that really end part of the spectrum in order to be someone who can still benefit from somatic therapy and body-based therapy. It can be helpful for stress, where if stress is in our minds or in our bodies, it can be
for anxiety, depression, ADHD, it can apply to so many different things. It's not just for trauma, but similar to how Dr. Ernie said earlier, it's like it can include. So yes, it can be very effective for trauma and a lot of other things as well.
Ryan Simpson (12:06.299)
Great. Okay. All right. So we've established that it's not just breathing apps, right? The mindful app. It's not just yoga or exercises. I want to get into the meat now, like what it is. So Dr. Judi, how would you define somatic therapy in simple terms? And then can you talk a little bit more, expand on what Dr. Ernie was talking about in terms of how it's different from traditional talk therapy?
Dr. Judi Allen (12:33.612)
Yeah, certainly. Like he had said earlier, it's the brain and the voice telling what's been happening, but the rest of the body is what we focus on in somatic therapy. So it can be very complementary to the talk therapy and they can be used together and it can be just as powerful even if it's just used alone. So what we need to understand first and foremost is our bodies talk to us. Our bodies tell us things all the time.
and we need to turn inwards and be able to actually listen to our bodies and have an awareness of some bodily sensations like our nervous system. For example, like we might feel tension or pain or relaxation or even our heart rate or digestive things going on inside of our body or even our breathing changes a little bit. All of that is part of what we do look at in somatic therapy.
and kind of helping people to learn how to focus internally on those sensations and also understand how and where things could be stored inside the body and what they're feeling in order to create a system or develop a plan for releasing it. So as I had said before, it's finding that connection between the mind and the body and bringing internal awareness in order to heal the mental,
the physical, the emotional, all the experiences, healing everything in a present moment focus. So even like LA was talking before about PTSD and stuff like that, we don't even have to go back to that. We don't have to look at those incidents. We have to look at the here and now. What is the body experiencing here now?
Ryan Simpson (14:23.398)
God, okay. This may seem like a silly example, but I feel like I've heard forever somebody, people say like, I carry my stress on my shoulders. Is that an example of what that might, this might feel like or somebody who could maybe benefit from this?
Dr. Judi Allen (14:36.894)
Exactly. Some people might feel it in their shoulders, they might feel it in their tummy, they might feel it in their hips, they might feel it in their head. So yeah, it's different for all of us because we're all got different emotional experiences and physical sensations to go along with those. So you're right. You're right.
Ryan Simpson (14:54.042)
Got it. Okay. All right. So so I've heard this a few times. My wife talks about it a lot actually in her studies She calls it the body keeping the score Right or trauma being stored in the body The body brain being interconnected. Can you help us understand that phrase a little bit more what it means in practical terms dive into this where things are stored concept
Ale Rios (15:18.289)
Absolutely. so I think kind of adding to what Dr. Judi said with the body and the mind communicate in simple terms, the body and mind are connected. And so two things that communicate typically have some type of relationship. So there is a relationship between our mind and our body. So what the mind thinks and what the mind rationalizes, the body experiences and these typically can be connected. So kind of how you said
in this example, or like, carry stress in my shoulders. That is our body communicating, like, the stress that you're thinking about, you're also experiencing in your body. So feelings can show up in the body through a ton of different cues. It can be tightness in the throat, it can be tension in the shoulders, butterflies in the stomach, headaches, lightness in the head, and they can signal sadness, anger, stress, anxiety, anxiousness, but it can also signify positive emotions as well.
really excited maybe like when we're looking forward to a date or an event we've been looking forward to or the the pre-show jitters excitement can show up in the body as well joy sometimes we cry because we're so happy so feelings emotions sensations they all live not just in our head but in our body as well and they can impact one another so these are these are signs or cues they signal that something is going on and it's
responsibility to see like can I listen to what my body is trying to communicate with me.
Ryan Simpson (16:53.742)
Got it, and that's all happening through the nervous system, right, which is the connective pathway between the brain and the body. The systematic therapy is helping us understand what that nervous system is trying to tell us and then working through it. So let's then do a little nervous system game for our next segment. We'll call it fight, flight, or freeze. What's happening? I'm gonna give scenarios.
And then I'd love for you as the experts to tell me which of those three things you think is happening and what the nervous system is trying to communicate. And then maybe how somatic therapy would target that situation. So the first one I have is for you, Dr. Ernie. Scenario number one, it's 2 a.m. I can't fall asleep, my mind will not stop racing.
Dr. Ernie (17:44.014)
All right, so the body keeps the score, as you mentioned, right? So the body is being activated. There's something going on and the body is responding to it. The nervous system is activated. So we would probably say that's probably a flight or a fight response, but probably flight. The brain thinks there's a problem. So the nervous system stays activated, right? And the heart rate is up.
And oftentimes the nervous system is trying to run from the problem. Right. And, but the only place it can run is kind of like inside your body and inside your head. is it? Where else is it going to run? Your nervous system can't leave you. Right. so somatic therapy would focus on helping the body shift from an activated state, downshifting the nervous system so the brain can finally get the rest and feel safe.
Ryan Simpson (18:40.421)
Hmm.
Dr. Ernie (18:41.486)
and then it can rest and relax and then you can sleep.
Ryan Simpson (18:47.053)
That sounds nice. I'm not gonna lie. Alright, scenario number two for you, Ale. During conflict, I just shut down. I can't speak for some reason.
Dr. Ernie (18:49.442)
Yeah.
Ale Rios (19:01.073)
Yeah, I would say that that
Definitely sounds like a freeze response. And so I what helps me to think of fight flight or freeze is When we have a lot of arousal a lot of stimulation going on and we are kind of reaching like this is too much more than our body or our mind can handle That can show up as this adrenaline response as fight flight or freeze but fight and flight are very Activated they have a lot of energy. So even like we might have a lot of energy on the inside but on the
outside, fight and flight are very like increased energy and freeze is almost the absence of it. It's cold. So fight and flight to me, my brain thinks of a volcano erupting while freeze feels more like the iceberg underneath the water. It's very, it's shut down. There's some numbness, maybe some emptiness where we can still like navigate life, but everything might even feel muted where there's like that limited piece where like we know on the inside,
Ryan Simpson (19:40.611)
Hmm.
Ale Rios (20:02.725)
a lot going on but it's showing up as like why I know I want to I want to talk I don't want to shut down I want to say something in this conversation but my body isn't letting me the words aren't coming out I'm not able to put what's on the inside and take it out and put it on the outside
and the fight, flight or freeze response, they had an evolutionary purpose. They were meant to protect us from danger, from predators. so freeze had an evolutionary purpose. It allowed us to slow down and scan our environment. It also helped us to be like the immobile and less likely to be spotted by predators. And nowadays we don't, we don't really engage with those predators like we did thousands of years ago, but at the same time,
Ryan Simpson (20:48.087)
Mm-hmm.
Ale Rios (20:50.723)
those same patterns of fight, fight and freeze show up. so freeze now shows up in relationships, it shows up at work. And so during conflict, adrenaline spikes, arousal increases, but if we can't handle it, it can show up as freeze, which is that shutting down and that numbness even.
Ryan Simpson (21:11.81)
Got it. Okay. All right. Thank you. Scenario three. This is for you, Dr. Judi. I overwork constantly and I feel really guilty if I need to rest.
Dr. Judi Allen (21:17.304)
Thank
Dr. Judi Allen (21:23.66)
Hmm. Okay. Well, there's actually two things that are going on here. I think both the resting and the feeling guilty. I'm going to address those kind of together but separate. So guilt actually kind of signifies somebody that's in this chronic state of fight or flight. Like they're constantly in hyper arousal or being overly like hyper vigilant about everything that's going on.
We might usually think of resting. Some people might think of resting as a type of freeze as LA had just described, but it's actually something, it's not freeze. It's something that's very necessary for our body to be able to reset. So usually a person that might feel guilty for resting stays in that state of activation or mobilization and need for movement or action, like stay tense all the time, where they just,
kind of stay wound up, I guess, is a good way of describing it. So what we try to target in somatic therapy is to enhance a person's awareness of those bodily sensations and notice any of the signals of stress or discomfort. Again, our bodies are talking to us. Our bodies are telling us something and our bodies are telling us something we need to pay attention to.
Ryan Simpson (22:44.234)
Interesting. Okay. I I relate actually a lot to that one. So I'll probably call you afterward. Maybe some of that that out. What do I need to listen to? Okay, if somebody's still listening with us now in the episode they are in and I think that's great. Welcome. I'm glad you're still with us listener We want to help you understand the key somatic concepts So that you know what you're diving into when you do choose to dive into this with us
Dr. Ernie (22:52.974)
Thank
Ryan Simpson (23:14.09)
And so we're going to go through some key somatic terms and things that may come up if you decide to dive in to a somatic therapy journey with us. so term one, Dr. Ernie, could you break down for us is somatic awareness. Help us understand what somatic awareness is.
Dr. Ernie (23:29.42)
Okay, sure, sure. That's a good one. So somatic awareness in basic terms just being would just mean being aware of what your body is going through, right? What's happening? So paying attention to your body so that we can do that in, you know, we should do that in everyday life, whether you're in somatic therapy or you're not, right? Just like you should pay attention to your emotions, right? Sometimes I'll say as a, you know, child and family therapist, I'll say emotions are like kids.
Pay attention to them, nurture them, take good care of them, just don't let them run the show. Somatic, your body is an essential part of us, and it's telling us all sorts of data. And then what's going on in our mind, in our experiences, is impacting the body, and then the body's impacting the rest. So somatic awareness is just being really aware of that, maybe slowing down.
paying better attention, looking at, checking your breathing. There's common ones that we might check in and then there's unusual ones that, I don't know why my eye is twitching, right? But there's common ones like my breathing is racing or my shoulders are hunched or my head is pounding. So somatic awareness just means paying attention to that.
Ryan Simpson (24:47.648)
Mm.
Ryan Simpson (24:51.124)
Got it, okay. I have actually a follow-up question in terms of awareness that I didn't think I was gonna have. I don't need like a wellness device to do somatic awareness, right?
Dr. Ernie (25:06.188)
No, no. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't hurt to have like, you know, if you have an Apple watch, it might tell you your heart is racing or something like that. Or one of the things, you know, that tells you all sorts of stuff. The or ring or things like that. But we're not talking about those things at all. Those would just be like a high tech way to get more data, right? But you can get the same data, maybe not as high tech, but you can just by paying attention. And probably it's, it's probably better.
Ryan Simpson (25:12.458)
Mm-hmm.
yeah, like the aura ring? Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Simpson (25:25.15)
Okay.
Dr. Ernie (25:34.488)
Just like we teach kids, it's better to learn how to do it before you go into AI and have AI do it for you, right? It's probably better to learn how to do this stuff yourself before you just pay attention to that your brain is telling you that your heart is going or your breathing is going or something like that. But those could be adjuncts, they could be helpers.
Ryan Simpson (25:55.816)
Okay, I was curious. It seemed like maybe those would be helpful tools, but also maybe unhelpful crutches if we really wanted to become mature in terms of our somatic awareness. Okay. All right, so term two, this is for you Dr. Judi, is somatic processing. How do we process something in the body? What does that even mean?
Ale Rios (26:06.086)
I think that's well said.
Dr. Judi Allen (26:16.896)
Okay, well, and I think as Dr. Ernie was talking about is the awareness kind of is the first step in a sense. And the processing is when we continue with that awareness, but we look internally. So many of our functions or our body systems are very, everything's operating unconsciously. So what we try to do is bring consciousness to those unconscious bodily systems and reactions.
So we bring awareness to the nervous system. then once we're able to piggybacking off of what Dr. Ernie said early is about having the awareness, sorry. But then somatic, what we have to do with processing is finding those movements or breathing techniques using breath work, trying to settle into our body.
being more internally aware of where everything is, noticing what's going on in all systems and then being able to set goals so that we can help our body return back to a state of balance or to a state of homeostasis, basically. We identify where it's being stored in the body and we work to release it and restore the body. And that's part of what the processing part is. And it can look like many different things.
Dr. Ernie (27:45.134)
Ryan, one thought with that. So if you think of like in talk therapy, if you think that you've got insights, right? Somebody might bring up, hey, Ryan, you seem pretty tense, right? Or you seem pretty angry right now or something like that. You don't, but let's say you did. That insight is good to know, but insight in itself doesn't necessarily change anything. You're going to need to process, you're going to have to do something with it.
Ryan Simpson (28:02.687)
Thanks.
Ryan Simpson (28:14.217)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ernie (28:14.71)
So somatic awareness would be like gaining some insight. Somatic processing would be, now I'm starting to do something with it.
Ryan Simpson (28:22.856)
Got it. Okay. All right. So moving it through and moving toward mental and physical peace Which that sounds nice Okay term three This is actually two terms. I'll I need you to do double duty. I apologize Embodied awareness and bodily expression. I've seen a lot of those terms. What do those mean? I'm just gonna tee you up right there. Take it away
Ale Rios (28:48.21)
So kind of very similar to all the other like terminology we've been using and the definitions we've been using embodied awareness is our awareness of what's going on in the body and it's paying attention to those physical sensations and the emotions that are coming up and Increasing awareness of like how it shows up because it's not going to up the same for every situation for every emotion and Also, sometimes person to person like same situation coming up very different emotions and very
sensations. Bodily expression is how those feelings and sensations show up in the body and how they are expressed. So these two terms go hand in hand in bringing our awareness to it and how it shows up we're bringing awareness to that piece. Dr. Judi's does that sound right? Beautiful.
Dr. Judi Allen (29:38.07)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. You got it.
Ale Rios (29:40.068)
Wonderful, I'm making sure I'm doing that right. And so to become aware of our sensations does not mean we need an answer. It doesn't mean it's a black and white fixed, this is what it is. So similar to what Dr. Ernie was saying earlier, where to simply be aware of something, we also need to process. And it's not just, someone telling me like the reason that I'm depressed is blank.
Dr. Judi Allen (29:42.904)
Mm-hmm.
Ale Rios (30:06.085)
I need to process what that means for me, like why it's important to me.
And so it simply means to just take notice and to allow the sensation to exist. So we don't have to rush to fix it or do something about it or make it go away, but we can give ourselves permission and give that feeling permission to exist without doing anything about it in that moment. So staying present, not thinking future tense, want to be done with this past tense. I don't want to go back there anymore, but in this moment I can simply be with the sensation.
Ryan Simpson (30:41.47)
Got it, okay. It almost sounds freeing too, because I'm sure a lot of people might, as they're working through this, start being frustrated with their bodies. Almost. Like, why is my body doing this? And that's... it's okay. It's just is. It's not good or bad. And now we can process. Alright, that's... Yes.
Ale Rios (30:57.169)
Yeah, and moving towards that acceptance where we can allow, we can give ourselves permission to be frustrated that the process is frustrating and allow more than one thing to be true. I can be frustrated in this moment and I can learn how to navigate that frustration.
Ryan Simpson (31:05.768)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (31:13.534)
Okay, thank you for covering both. I appreciate that. Term number four is for Dr. Ernie and this I feel like this one comes up a lot in a lot of our conversations but it absolutely is a key term I think for somatic so grounding. What are grounding techniques and how do they work within the somatic space?
Ale Rios (31:17.509)
you
Dr. Ernie (31:33.122)
Yes, I would say grounding techniques would be like electrical grounding would be to ground a wire, right, to something and cause the energy, right, to, I'm not going to explain it quite right in electrical terms, but cause it to be able to be, all feet basically back solid on the ground, right? So when we're grounded, we're more solid back on the ground, our emotions, our anxiety start to start, when they start to spin out of control.
we're actually giving it a lifeline and bringing it back down. Sometimes with kids and such, when your kid's out of control, you might pick them up and then put them back down. It's sort of like rebooting a computer. We might do some things to ground our body, right, or ground our mind, or ground our breathing, ground things. It's sort of remembering the here and now, that we're safe, that we're okay.
Sometimes we might use a technique like the 5-4-3-2-1 technique, the five things I see, five things I hear, five things I feel, five things I smell, right? And then four and then three and then two and then one. That's just really getting yourself centered in the here and now. Because most of the time the here and now is actually pretty safe, right? We're not in any danger, but our body is responding as if it is. It's spinning out of control, so grounding is bringing that back down.
Ryan Simpson (32:57.713)
Got it. Okay. That's a fantastic summation. that. Our last term is for Dr. Judi, mind-body integration.
Dr. Judi Allen (33:07.154)
okay. Well, that's how our thoughts, feelings and physical sensations all get interconnected. And they're always influencing each other, the thoughts, the feelings and the whole bodily systems. for example, we might think about like when you said before, Ryan, like the tension in your shoulders or whatever, or somebody might be experiencing some digestive or butterflies in the stomach.
Any kind of changes in their breathing, chronic fatigue might actually show up in here. These are all things of understanding the body and how it's the mind and the body are connected. So this is understanding our thoughts and how we can influence those. The thoughts can influence the physical self. OK, we can also focus on kind of tracking bodily responses and how they may be connected to those emotional.
emotional challenges. So I'll give you an example and like you guys here with me right now on this podcast, but anybody else watching just kind of invite you to take, take notice, take notice of your body where you are right now. Take notice of your feet on the floor, how the floor might be putting pressure up against the bottoms of your feet, how the cushion under our bottoms feel in the seats we're sitting in.
Maybe how our arms might be touching different things, whether they're on our lap or the arm of the chair. So just kind of noticing where our body is and what it feels like. And then noticing, is it light? Is it heavy? Is there a temperature change? Is there something feeling stuck or is our body kind of moving or wanting to be moving? You can also kind of improve that awareness through that whole mind-body integration that we're talking about.
So it becomes easiest to kind of detect the emotions when we have this mind-body awareness, detect the emotions before they get too big. And then we can bring in some behavior change and some strategies or coping skills to implement and bring about that regulation or homeostasis.
Ryan Simpson (35:08.603)
you
Ryan Simpson (35:18.308)
Okay, got it. Thank you. That was great. I feel very educated now. This is this been a fantastic conversation But so far I think in our podcast we've mostly talked about really talk therapy and different methods of talk therapy and this this feels like a path to something additional not not necessarily different but additional And so I'd really like to talk more about the relationship between talk therapy and somatic therapy
Dr. Judi Allen (35:23.753)
Yeah
Ryan Simpson (35:47.961)
So Dr. Judi, my first question though is for you and why somebody wouldn't maybe want to use just talk therapy. If somebody's been saying, I've talked about this for years and I still feel stuck. What's happening there? Why might somebody struggle if they don't have the words for what they're feeling or words just haven't been enough for them? Can you talk about that?
Dr. Judi Allen (36:09.528)
Right, right. That's actually an excellent question. I do hear that a lot too. So the feeling stuck in the, whether it's in the body or in the brain, like I can't get the words out and feeling stuck in talk therapy. First of all, I want you to understand like a lot of things are stored inside our body non-verbally. It's in our implicit memories, which these are the ways in which our memories of sensory or emotional memory.
Ryan Simpson (36:14.18)
Okay.
Dr. Judi Allen (36:38.462)
That's what implicit memories are and we we have intellectual awareness of how to heal our body and our nervous system Just doesn't our nervous system wouldn't feel the same We might have the thoughts and the feelings in talk therapy how to do it But the nervous system is not reacting and I think it reflecting on something that dr. Riley said earlier So kind of feeling stuck can mean that the different parts of our brain
are actually more different parts of our brain like the amygdala becomes way more active and other parts of our brain become less engaged, less active like the prefrontal cortex, which is where our language center is. So when someone says, I don't have the words, I get stuck, that could be a big part of. And so having this internal somatic awareness of that sense of stuckness can also release
our abilities to have conversation and communication. So it's kind of responding to how the body has just a general sense of felt awareness and not just reasoning in intellect as in what we might gain in talk therapy, I guess. So the nervous system is still reacting regardless and we're,
constantly, we can potentially be in a constant state of fight, flight or freeze, even when we're participating in talk therapy. So that's why, as I said before, adding in somatic therapy can bring a whole nother level of awareness and a whole nother level of healing.
Ryan Simpson (38:20.962)
Okay, so Dr. Ernie, can you maybe close that circle then in we introduce somatic awareness into the process and talk therapy can help round out a therapeutic picture. How does talk therapy complement then the somatic side?
Dr. Ernie (38:38.424)
Yeah, I'd say that both complement each other because we're both thinkers, right? And we have thoughts and feelings and such, but we also have a body. So I would say talk therapy helps us understand maybe what happened, and somatic therapy helps the body stop reacting like it's still happening. Maybe that's a good way of saying that. You know, any massage therapist, and it's very different, but massage therapy,
Ryan Simpson (39:00.143)
Okay.
Dr. Ernie (39:05.208)
They'll tell you if they're doing deep sort of work, especially on athletes and such and really deep when they're working on the muscles, they'll have people just have memories and they'll just start to tear up. All sorts of stuff will come up for them because stored in the body, there's stuff in, it's weird how that is, but there's all sorts of stuff stored in the body. Our bodies tell us a whole lot of stuff, just like our minds tell us a whole lot of stuff.
Ryan Simpson (39:19.3)
Interesting.
Dr. Ernie (39:33.474)
when you use both talk therapy and somatic therapy or use them when they make the most sense to use this one and make the most sense to use this one, then you've got great options. It's having wonderful things in your toolbox.
Ryan Simpson (39:48.26)
That's great. I did not know that about like deep tissue massage and massage therapy. I always thought it was interesting to call it therapy, but now that makes even more sense to me. I'm getting this picture of the body is like, or going into that almost as like going into a basement where lots of stuff is stored and you haven't looked at it in a while.
Dr. Ernie (40:10.574)
Hmm.
Ryan Simpson (40:13.643)
But if you go down there and you really start cleaning it out, you're going to get a nice clean basement, which is great. We don't know what that's like in Florida, which stinks. But if you do, you're going to go through all the memories and all the archives. And we just had to do that because we're moving kids' rooms around. We just had our third kid. And my wife and I had to grieve a little bit putting some of our oldest daughter's old clothes away, which is super exciting.
But yeah, this is just making me think about all that because we were laughing and crying There's lots of different stuff and I'm gonna rabbit trail us for the rest of the conversation if I don't stop so We're gonna close out with our last segment. I really would love for you guys to give Our listeners maybe something to try this week That would be in the somatic therapy realm. Maybe one realistic somatic based tool to help somebody who's
Dr. Ernie (40:50.466)
Thanks.
Ryan Simpson (41:09.081)
dealing with, you know, it could be as big as maybe some traumas or as, you know, there is no such thing as like small issues, right, but maybe a minor stress even. They could try out a somatic tool this week or maybe are there things that they can stop doing to help them with better nervous system regulation. So Dr. Judi, what would you like us to try out this week?
Dr. Judi Allen (41:32.693)
All right, so the one thing I would, the easiest and the most simple thing is just to do a body check in, see what's happening inside your body, whether you're standing, walking, sitting, laying down, just feeling and looking internally, see what's going on inside your body. If you have little gurgle in your belly, if you feel tension in your back a little bit, if you're feeling stress or strain in your head, just notice that and pay attention to it.
I think when we can turn our view inside our body and become more accustomed or more habitual about paying attention to that, it can really help us. But I think one thing I would say definitely is don't ignore what your body is trying to tell you. Our bodies are talking to us all the time. Don't ignore it.
Ryan Simpson (42:24.056)
Got it. Okay, that's great. All right.
Ale Rios (42:27.026)
For my advice, I would say find ways to create intentional movement. So when it comes to adverse experiences, stress, trauma, whatever may be going on.
What isn't expressed can be carried. And so that's where we can start to carry some of that weight of our day-to-day experiences, of our past. And so when we're listening to our body, yes, bringing awareness is so, so, so important where we don't have to do anything about it. But sometimes our body is saying, actually, what I need is, can you help meet my need? Whether that's I need to kind of stretch or like release some of that tension, move my shoulders.
move my wrists around, go on a walk. These things can be our body saying like, thank you for listening, can you take it a step further? And sometimes that doesn't come up and that's more than fine, but consider finding ways to create movement to express what your body is experiencing.
Ryan Simpson (43:30.315)
Hmm So I'm I really appreciate the examples there that it could be as simple as rolling your wrists Or as big as like doing a full workout because that's what I was thinking I was like, I mean do I have to like I just start working out like a lot to be happy But no, it's not quite that complicated. It's just good
Ale Rios (43:48.21)
Yeah, whatever ways are feasible.
Dr. Judi Allen (43:49.059)
When you go too hard and, I was gonna say when you go too hard and too fast, then you're doing the reverse of what we're trying to get you to do here, paying more attention to what's actually happening in the here and now.
Ale Rios (43:56.804)
You
Ryan Simpson (44:02.667)
That's a good warning for...
Ale Rios (44:02.77)
Because sometimes our body wants to lift heavy things and other times it's saying, I kind of may need a break.
Ryan Simpson (44:09.449)
Yes, maybe a nap. Those are great. All right, Dr. Ernie, what's the last one?
Dr. Ernie (44:16.28)
Let me think. Ali mentioned something. She said taking a walk. I would say taking like a mindful walk, right? So not just a walk where you're on your cell phone or you're thinking about all the stressful things, but the things where you're actually paying attention to your body, you're relaxing, you're absorbing nature, you're listening to the birds, you're quieting.
right, so that you can actually pay attention to what's going on with you. So you slow down, feel your feet hit the ground, notice your breathing and your surroundings. Movement can help the nervous system reset. That's really good. You can add in some box breathing, right? Some breathing, like maybe breathe in for a second, hold for four seconds, release for four seconds. So you can do some box breathing. You can also, I love this one. How about start each morning?
but the first thing hitting the ground being your knees, right? In prayer or meditation or something, right? Where you just stop, you start the very first thing in the morning, you just start reflecting and quiet and pause, right? I love that one, but there's all sorts of things. So one of the things I would say is stop running, constant on overdrive, right? Stop being constant overdrive and let your nervous system reset, moments of pause.
You know, we don't need nonstop stimulation, even though the world sort of is coming at us like this. Yeah, we're actually better to unplug, right? And pause and breathe, slow down, reflect, pay attention, relax.
Ryan Simpson (45:38.24)
Sure would like us to.
Ryan Simpson (45:52.522)
Great. Well then, everybody listening, that's your permission to take a breath. You know, maybe turn off the phone for a second and look at a cloud. They're really nice. Right? There are things around us.
Dr. Ernie (46:04.238)
Remember that guy that used to paint the clouds, the happy clouds? I forget his name. Bob, yes. Bob Robb.
Ryan Simpson (46:08.662)
Bob, Bob Ross, RIP Bob.
Dr. Judi Allen (46:14.584)
But don't forget to look inside.
Ryan Simpson (46:17.328)
Mmm, thank you.
Dr. Judi Allen (46:18.932)
not just outside, but inside. That's what we're talking about with somatic therapy.
Ryan Simpson (46:23.734)
Perfect. Thanks Dr. Judi for keeping us centered. Well, I'm gonna talk to our listeners real quick. I'll just remind everybody that somatic therapy isn't about replacing talk therapy. It's about including the body in the healing process that you are going to go through because trauma, stress, and anxiety don't just live in your thoughts. They will show up in your breathing, your posture, your muscles, your limbs, tension, and your nervous system. Healing is helped.
when we reconnect the mind and the body. If you're struggling with trauma, anxiety, or stress, somatic therapy and body-based interventions could be the missing piece and a powerful addition to your healing journey. You can learn more about somatic therapy, trauma therapy, and anxiety counseling at counselingquarter.net or give us a call at 407-843-4968. This team would love to work with you and to help you in your somatic and healing journey.
If this episode helped you or you think it might help somebody you know, please subscribe, share it, leave us a review. It helps us reach more people with real life counseling content meant to help real life people. Thank you, Dr. Ernie, Dr. Judi, and Ali. This has been a wonderful conversation. I'm excited to learn more about somatic therapy in the future.
Dr. Judi Allen (47:42.914)
Thank you, Ryan.
Ale Rios (47:43.996)
Thank you.
Ryan Simpson (47:44.871)
Alright, have a good night. I'll talk to you soon.