Adult Depression in Real Life: The Hidden Forms No One Talks About
Summary:
Depression does not always look the way people expect. In this episode of Real Life Counseling, Ryan Simpson is joined by Dr. Ernie Reilly, LCSW, Dr. Judi Allen, LCSW, and Ale Rios, RMHCI to explore the hidden forms of adult depression, including high-functioning depression, irritability, emotional numbness, and achievement-driven depression.
The conversation unpacks how someone can still be working, parenting, checking boxes, and appearing “fine” while quietly carrying heaviness, exhaustion, disconnection, or a loss of joy. The team also explains how to tell the difference between burnout and depression, why motivation is often one of the first things depression affects, and what depression counseling can actually do to help.
If you have ever wondered whether what you are feeling is “just life” or something more, this episode offers clarity, compassion, and practical next steps.
Key Takeaways
Depression can be present even when someone is still functioning, producing, and meeting responsibilities.
High-functioning depression often hides behind productivity, competence, and outward stability.
Depression does not always show up as sadness. It can also look like irritability, numbness, exhaustion, and disconnection.
Burnout and depression are not the same. One helpful clue is whether rest and a change of pace actually improve how you feel.
Motivation is often one of the first things depression affects, making everyday tasks feel heavier than they should.
Therapy can help even if you do not fully understand why you feel the way you do yet.
Counseling is not just about talking. It can involve practical tools, thought work, behavior change, self-care, and evidence-based approaches like CBT and somatic therapy.
If something in this episode felt familiar, The Counseling Corner is here to help. Learn more about adult counseling and depression support or call 407-843-4968.
THE COUNSELING CORNER — CONTACT US
Phone:407-843-4968
Email:info@counselingcorner.net
Address: 1631 Hillcrest St., Orlando, FL 32803
FOLLOW US:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/counselingcornerorlando/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/1631CounselingCorner
Meet Our Counselors:
Visit the show on Apple Podcasts
Visit the show on Spotify
Visit the show on YouTube
Transcript:
Ryan Simpson (01:44.746)
Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by the Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan, and I'm here with Dr. Ernie Reilly licensed clinical social worker and founder of the Counseling Corner. And today we're talking about something many adults experience, but don't always recognize, depression. Depression is more than feeling sad. It's a condition where mood, energy, motivation, and enjoyment in life start to fade, making everyday things feel heavier and harder than they should. But today,
We're not talking about the kind that always looks like sadness or staying in bed all day. We're talking about high functioning depression, irritable depression, the kind where you're still going to work, you're still parenting, checking boxes, getting things done, but inside something feels heavy, flat, or disconnected. High functioning depression is when life on the outside looks fine, but on the inside things are heavy, draining, or maybe even numb. Today we'll explore those hidden forms of adult depression.
how to recognize the signs of depression in adults and what depression counseling actually helps with for these instances. To help us talk about this difficult topic, we're joined by Dr. Judi Allen, licensed social worker and Ale Rios, our newest provider who are both experienced therapists who work with adults navigating depression every day. So let's start with something many adults ask themselves. Is this depression or is this just life?
I'm going to read a few statements that you likely hear all the time and I'd just love for you to give us your gut reactions. Starting with you Dr. Judi. I'm still functioning. I'm getting things done. I can't be depressed.
Dr. Judi Allen (03:25.36)
As you said in the introduction, that many people work, attend school, take care of others, take care of all their responsibilities, but still are depressed. Depression can occur on a spectrum and all of us can feel it at a very different level. It's the same thing about somebody's functioning level can also occur on that spectrum as well. The behaviors are the outcome measures that
might look like somebody is functioning, but the emotions or the actual experiences is where the depression might lie. So somebody is feeling more like numb, loss of interest in things, maybe feeling a little worthless, having some concentration problems, sleep problems, that happens so much, sleep problems, and just general fatigue. Here's a metaphor to help understand this type of depression.
So some people feel like depression is like swimming with all of your clothes on. You can still swim, but you're much slower and things are weighing you down. And you're not able to float like you used to, but you go much slower with having all those wet clothes on.
Dr. Ernie (04:44.865)
Good, good. Ryan, I might throw in there like, oh, you can function, but function doesn't necessarily mean thriving. And sometimes people are pushing through or they're pushing something down, but they're quietly hurting. And going with Judi's metaphor of the swimming with your clothes on, when I go for a run or go for a walk, a lot of times I'll see someone out there and they're wearing these weighted vests. I don't know if you've ever seen those.
Ryan Simpson (04:53.387)
Hmm.
Dr. Ernie (05:14.141)
And so they're out there walking, but they're just carrying more weight than someone else. And some people are kind of metaphorically going through life just carrying more weight, right? But they're still walking. They're still functioning.
Ryan Simpson (05:23.915)
Hmm.
Yeah, so my best counselors and mentors have always said you you never know what the person across from you is carrying And so I wonder if this starts to fall into that. So statement number two Is for you Ale. I don't feel sad. I'm just kind of numb
Ale Rios (05:45.388)
Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes up for me when I hear that is sadness and numbness, are both emotions and all emotions serve some type of purpose.
They communicate to us that something is going on something is important to us and we are having a response to it and so Numbness can serve a lot of different purposes but one purpose I see a lot that happens with them this is it is a protector part
It protects us from other things that are much more frightening. They can be way more overwhelming, way scarier. so numbness can even protect us from other emotions. So the way that I see that tying in to depression is that if we're experiencing numbness in the short term because something was really stressful and that numbness goes away with time and it doesn't really come back, then it simply might be like a moment where we were depressed.
or going through something else, the way that I can differentiate between that and depression is more of that like chronic nature. Is this numbness showing up more than just before and after school? Is it showing up every day at work 24-7 when you come home at the end of the day, when you're out with your friends, when you're doing things that you feel like you should enjoy, but numbness is taking place of some of those other emotions that you used to feel. That to me can be a sign that
this isn't just signaling short-term numbness but maybe something like depression.
Ryan Simpson (07:24.532)
Got it. Okay.
Statement three. please, yeah.
Dr. Judi Allen (07:27.818)
Can we interject something with that, with what Ellie was saying too? So numbness is just as much of a feeling as sadness, that everybody associates depression with sadness. So that is something to be aware of, in that we have to pay attention to when and where these feelings occur, kind of like what Ellie was just describing too. then...
Does it happen, does the numbness happen more or less than any other emotions that you're experiencing and other things as things to be paying attention to? It's kind of how the emotions are just muted and not really as aware of our emotions, probably dismissing them.
Dr. Ernie (08:12.833)
Yeah. One thought, oh, you know, if you're running and you, and you fall on your skin, for a minute, like you don't feel anything like it's like, it doesn't oftentimes hurt initially. And that's your body naturally doing something to protect you. Now imagine that doesn't return. So you don't feel anything in your knee the next day or the next day or a month later.
That says, okay, we've got something that's gone wrong.
Ryan Simpson (08:44.125)
Yeah, that's all.
Ale Rios (08:45.077)
And it doesn't mean that pain isn't present. so, similar to with our emotions, when there is numbness, it doesn't mean that there isn't sadness, there isn't anger, there isn't fear or other emotions going on, but they're buried underneath. And so we can approach that with a little bit of curiosity with, is there something underneath the numbness, even if it's muted, even if it's blurry, like you're underwater and can't see very well? What are some of those cues showing up? How can we
Ryan Simpson (09:17.268)
Got it. Okay, great. Interesting. I've got some follow up questions that maybe we'll address later in the conversation on that one. Statement number three, I'm just exhausted. It's probably burnout. Dr. Ernie, can you take that one?
Dr. Ernie (09:34.667)
Sure, sure. So burnout or stress usually improve with rest or time, time off, a change of pace, right? Depression often doesn't, right? So you just, you rest and it doesn't necessarily improve depression. If it improves with some rest, it probably wasn't depression. It was probably tiredness or some stress.
If it improves because you decrease some of the things that you're doing or shift some of the things you're doing, that probably wasn't depression, that probably was burnout. You needed to change some of the things because you were burnout on those things. So if exhaustion stays when life slows down, and especially if comes with things like loss of interest, heaviness, feeling disconnected, that's when you start wondering if there's something.
more than stress or burnout going on. It's something more like depression. Stress means you have too much on your plate. Burnout means you've just been carrying it for too long. And depression means even when things would normally get better, right, it will give you energy, it's not working. So if that's case, probably stress or burnout. If it doesn't, then it might be depression.
Ryan Simpson (10:44.84)
That's a helpful test.
Ryan Simpson (10:50.864)
Okay, that's a helpful test. It's like a good nice linear process to maybe figure out what's going on for somebody who's listening. So thank you for that. Statement number four, and I've said this one to myself, I say it to myself probably a few times a day. Other people have it worse.
Dr. Judi Allen (11:11.978)
I'm going to take that one if you don't mind. I'm guilty of it as well. You other people have it worse, right? It's just it's a way I think we're not we're not really validating our own feelings first when we say that. And we're kind of minimizing what we're experiencing. And I would challenge someone who says that. Why are you comparing yourself to others and their suffering? We all have different experiences. We have different ways of showing our emotions.
Ryan Simpson (11:14.619)
Take it away. Open book.
Dr. Judi Allen (11:41.67)
Nobody's is any better or worse or different than others. You need to focus on what your feelings are and making sense of your feelings. There's multiple levels of suffering and we all kind of go through it. We're humans.
Ryan Simpson (11:52.775)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ernie (11:57.749)
Yeah, I would say absolutely that's the case, but it also can be sometimes if you say it and it's intended and it actually produces gratitude, like I'm actually fairly well, I'm actually pretty blessed here. That can help center you, but frequently it's not just that. It's you're discounting your own state as well, right, that your emotions don't matter.
It matters. There could be people a lot worse, but it doesn't mean that, you know, I broke my arm a while ago and there are people who have broken backs, but it didn't mean my arm didn't hurt. I still needed to take care of my arm.
Ryan Simpson (12:36.367)
Yeah, it could be healthy and it can be unhealthy. The truth is always in the gray, right? So it's always helpful to have somebody to work through that expression or that feeling with to figure out what the truth is. Okay, so I want to get into really labeling and understanding some of those different forms of hidden depression that we talked about in the intro. And maybe people listening will hear these and relate to some more than others.
as we break them down. But I'm glad that we are going to because I really think they are probably hidden amongst us. So number one, Dr. Judi, can you help us understand what high functioning depression looks like and why do high achievers miss it often?
Dr. Judi Allen (13:27.594)
So like we said, like I said earlier, depression happens on the spectrum and different experiences for different people. So high functioning individuals look like they're functioning, going to work, doing everything they need to do. Like you said earlier, Ryan, checking all the check boxes, finishing assignments, taking care of responsibilities. But someone can be constantly
tired or emotionally flat or easily overwhelmed on the inside that they're keeping that part hidden. There is such a thing as persistent depressive disorder, and it describes a low level of depression that stays with us for a very long period of time that often gets missed because it doesn't look like the textbook version of everybody assumes depression is. somebody's not crying all the time, they're not looking sad all the time, but
and maybe they're still active and they just feel tired. So one example, and I don't know if you guys, I know you guys on this podcast with me, but the audience, not sure if everybody knows Robin Williams. He's a famous comedian who died from suicide not that long ago. Well,
Ryan Simpson (14:36.998)
Ugh.
Dr. Judi Allen (14:41.03)
And many years ago, I feel old when I'm saying that. But so he's a good example because we all think like comedians are supposed to be happy, right? They're supposed to be positive. And he always had amazing movies and amazing stand up. But no, chronic and hidden depression can stay inside and be just below the surface and create all these challenges for people. Nobody else can see him.
Ryan Simpson (15:07.472)
Got it. Okay. That's, I mean, that's a really helpful example to everybody knows Robin Williams and man, he was high functioning, right? mean, some of the best content of that generation. So that's why it's important that we talk about these things too, I think, to give people permission to recognize it, maybe even in themselves, especially those high achievers, high functioners. Okay. Number two is irritable depression.
Dr. Judi Allen (15:17.47)
very much so.
Ryan Simpson (15:36.09)
Dr. Ernie, can you help us understand why depression might show up as irritability and why some adults who are feeling the irritable form of depression are short tempered, maybe more than sad?
Dr. Ernie (15:50.049)
So depression doesn't always look like sadness. That's really important to know. Just like, you know, not someone could be walking around and they have cancer and you have no idea that they have cancer. Right? That's that one. That one's not surprising that you could not know that. But someone could be walking around with depression and they don't even know it or certainly you don't know it, but they may not even know it. They just they're pushing through. They just know they're tired. They just know they're irritable.
And this piece, for a lot of people, irritability or frustration or short fuse is a sign of depression. Depression oftentimes is anger kind of directed inward, but sometimes it's kind of reflecting back out towards others or you're irritable with your own self or frustrated with yourself or frustrated with others. But when your emotional energy is sort of depleted,
all used up, your nervous system has less patience and less margin, right? Or small things start feeling quite big, right? Sometimes depression doesn't make people cry, it makes people snappy or impatient or easily annoyed. So, sadness turns inward, right? Irritability often, you know, has the same sort of thing, but spilling outward.
Ryan Simpson (17:15.044)
Yeah, kind of reverses out. Got it, okay. The third one, numb or flat depression. Ali, can you help us understand what that emotional numbness is? Singling and why this one often people say that they're losing interest in the things that they used to enjoy with this form.
Ale Rios (17:35.5)
Yeah, I think that...
actually adds on really great with the prompt that you had given me earlier, which is that our emotions are our communicators. They are our cues. They are our signals that something is going on. so numbness kind of going back to what I was saying earlier with it being a protective part, it's protecting us from other things that are too much for our body to handle. So numbness can signal that our body does not feel safe enough to feel the full extent of something
going on, whether it is our emotions, whether it is a theme going on in our life, whether it is something coming up at work, in our relationships, at home. And so that is where that curiosity of what is underneath can really help us out. But then, like you said, that second piece with numbness, sometimes we're not just not getting those other like negative emotions that are unpleasant, but we're also lacking in some of those pleasant emotions.
Like we can miss those feelings of joy and excitement and contentment even feeling like a sense of calm and at peace. Numbness can make calm feel empty. It can be, it can feel like you're underwater. It can feel blurry almost heavy. I think that example that Dr. Judi had given earlier with you're swimming with clothes, but you're kind of trudging through the water. It's not that you can't swim, but it is heavy. You're carrying a lot.
And so when we lose interest in things that we used to enjoy, the clinical term for that is anedonia. And it's Greek for without pleasure. And so lacking in pleasure.
Ale Rios (19:22.671)
That is one of the core symptoms of depression, where we used to really enjoy different activities, different interests. It doesn't even mean things that we used to do, but things that we used to maybe even the content we used to enjoy. Books, shows, passion projects. We start to feel pretty disconnected from those things. And we start to have this pressure of, I really want to enjoy this again. Why can't I enjoy it? So can be frustrating.
It can also feel incredibly isolating where you're looking at even this past self of your of yourself of who you used to be that used to enjoy these things and you miss that person you miss those things so there's some grief there as well and grief and depression can kind of overlap like if they were a Venn diagram there is a space in the middle where they coexist and at the same time that does not mean that an endonia
is permanent. It does not mean that you're never going to enjoy things again.
we have to kind of live in that uncertainty for a bit. Like how can we get to a place where if we treat the depression, how are you going to enjoy things in this new life? Not looking at the past and how you used to enjoy it before, but in this current life, in the present, what is enjoyment look like to you? What are the things that you are enjoying now and things that we can look forward to to increase that enjoyment?
Ryan Simpson (20:54.372)
It is a journey to a new space right but you can get that we can move to together. Okay All right, then the last one Dr. Judi, can you help us understand achievement driven depression? How does performance become identity and what are the risks there? I end up talking with people about this one a lot
Dr. Judi Allen (21:16.776)
That's like when I was talking about the high achievers before earlier, it's like when what their outcome output is, is what creates their identity and it becomes one. So it happens a lot with individuals that have a high level of responsibility, either personally or professionally. There, it happens in environments actually, where individuals are very criticized for their mistakes.
or where someone's intelligence is actually tied to their achievements. And so their worth becomes part of their work and it becomes part of their identity. So like what happens is these persistent thoughts become part of a belief system for themselves, part of what they see as their own identity. And when and if failure occurs, that becomes a threat to their identity.
So when that happens, basically someone's emotional awareness just disintegrates. This type of overproductivity in a person will cause them to not be able to regulate their emotions anymore. And then when we're staying in with this low level of depression on the inside, what actually happens is this overproductiveness becomes a sense of anxiety.
and increasing some other emotional challenges that are happening. So even when somebody is a high functioning individual and they're a super achiever and it's tied to their identity, it really is only a temporary feeling of self-worth that goes away once the project is completed or the task is done.
Ryan Simpson (23:02.112)
Okay, got it. So I want to move into the next thing because I think a lot of people who maybe identify with some of these different forms of depression that we've just gone through would say, I'm getting things done. know, I'm existing in the world. Depression hasn't locked me in my room. I just need to get motivated to get through this. I feel like I hear that a lot about a lot of things, but I
also think that depression attacks motivation first. So Dr. Ernie, can you maybe help us understand the relationship of motivation to some of these different forms of depression?
Dr. Ernie (23:45.887)
Yeah, if you sort of personify depression, let's say for a second, I'll thought of it as like an enemy. The enemy is going in there and it's getting you where it needs to get you first, which is if it can get you not motivated, if it can get you your energy depleted, your reward system slowing down, your energy is diminished, right? Then it's got you hooked, right?
Certainly depression isn't a person, right? And it's not attacking in that sense, but there is a sense that there is an attack going on, right? It's a disease, right? Attacking. It's something trying to get the best of us, right? Things that normally would feel meaningful or satisfying suddenly feel like too much effort. It's not that people don't care, right? Just like,
Dr. Judi and Ale was talking about swimming with the clothes on. It's not that you don't know how to swim, right? You do know how to swim. It's not that you don't know how to care. It's just that it takes a lot of energy, right? And it takes a lot of energy to move. Depression doesn't take away what you care about. It just sort of disconnects you with the energy to act on it. So imagine you're like driving somewhere, an important somewhere.
Ryan Simpson (24:48.993)
Hmm.
Dr. Ernie (25:05.864)
Right? But you're in a car with no gas, right? Barely any gas in it. And you're running out of gas or your carburetor is all clogged up or, know, or something. It's just not, it's just not functioning. Right? So you don't not want to get there. You just can't get there. Right? The vehicle isn't working. So depression goes after that motivation first. And when you see that, that's why in fact, sometimes we say,
Ryan Simpson (25:25.407)
Yeah.
Dr. Ernie (25:34.923)
The most powerful antidepressant, other than medication, Most powerful antidepressant is taking the actions of a non-depressed you. Even just completing just a small task, just doing a few dishes. Just some action, completing something, taking the actions of a non-depressed you can have a very protected and antidepressant quality about it.
Ryan Simpson (25:44.448)
Hmm.
Ryan Simpson (26:04.193)
Okay, but if somebody's sitting there and maybe they're relating to some of these things and they're saying, know what? I just have to try harder. just, just, you know, put my head down and try harder. Can something like that backfire though if this isn't quite as simple as just, you know, I'm tired?
Dr. Judi Allen (26:12.202)
You
Dr. Judi Allen (26:21.064)
Yeah, I'm going to talk about that. So trying harder, harder just isn't isn't that easy, right? It's not a switch that we can turn on and off and just say, if I just try harder, it'll be better. So when we force ourselves to try harder, it can actually cause the brain to go into a shutdown mode and things become muted. Emotions aren't felt. Things are not working well when the brain goes into that shutdown mode.
Ryan Simpson (26:23.955)
Okay.
Dr. Judi Allen (26:50.73)
But putting that extra pressure on ourselves, try harder, try harder, try harder. So the brain changes how we actually evaluate kind of action and rewards and reward is no longer worth the effort. When we go into that slow shutdown space after we've told ourselves, try harder, try harder. And then avoidance just shows up. We go cycle back, right back to try harder, try harder, try harder.
Ryan Simpson (27:19.742)
Okay, can you help us understand avoidance a little bit more?
Ale Rios (27:23.851)
Yeah, I think in a previous podcast, we talked about avoidance relating to anxiety and avoidance can also relate to depression where the things that make us uncomfortable, it's we sometimes have this narrative that I can't handle being uncomfortable. I can't handle this uncertainty of the unknown. So if I avoid it, maybe I will feel better.
But at the same time, if we are never exposed to our discomfort, if we never allow ourselves to sit with that discomfort for too long, then our ability to tolerate it kind of gets smaller and smaller. It's kind of physical fitness and mental fitness are so A, connected, but B, so similar. They mirror each other really well. And so when we go to the gym and we work out, we purposefully put our muscles under stress to get better at that thing and grow
more fibers, more layers, more strength, more size. So our mental health is very similar in that sense, where if we don't expose ourselves to some of those difficult situations in meaningful doses, so not going too hard, too fast, then we don't allow ourselves that opportunity to grow and get out of this depression that we're sitting with.
Ryan Simpson (28:45.865)
Got it. Okay, Dr. Ernie, go.
Dr. Ernie (28:48.097)
One thought with the try harder thing made me think about why do my sons is a wrestler. And so sometimes you'll hear a parent just say, get up, get up. And you can see the wrestler saying, know, perhaps you didn't see this guy crushing my head into the mat. Perhaps you didn't see the fact that I'm trying to get up. I'm not, I'm not wanting to stay down here. Right. We do a parent will be yelling, get up, which is similar to just
Ryan Simpson (28:59.244)
man.
Dr. Ernie (29:17.505)
Try harder. So sometimes we think, you know, I just need to try harder and we're not recognizing what's going on. Or sometimes we may send those messages to someone else.
Ryan Simpson (29:28.447)
Mmm. Got it. Good caution there. Don't be that parent telling your friend to get up. So, imagine we do have a friend, right, who maybe is identifying or a listener who's identifying with some of these things that we're talking about and has felt their motivation being attacked and trying harder has not been working. They haven't been able to get up and they're maybe interested in counseling and helping it or seeing how it could help them.
Dr. Ernie (29:33.387)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (29:57.898)
move through some of these things. I'd love to talk more about what depression counseling actually does for these different types of depression. So a lot of adults are confused though about what actually happens there. And so I'm going to ask a few questions and then have all of you answer those questions. Number one is for Ale. What if I don't know why I'm feeling this way? What if I'm depressed and I don't really understand it?
How can depression counseling help me figure this out?
Ale Rios (30:29.781)
Yeah, and I will say that is way more common than people think. A lot of people have this idea that you come into therapy already knowing exactly what's wrong with you and exactly like what happened in your childhood, what's going on at work. But a lot of times when you come to therapy, you actually don't have the answers. And the therapy isn't the answers. It's the process, the process of exploring what like what is going on. And so when I hear that question,
What if I don't know why I feel this way? My response is, that's okay. We don't need to have the answers. There's no timeline, no rushing on wellness and feeling better. We can take time to explore how these feelings are showing up for you, how depression shows up for you, and how we can be curious about it and move forward from here.
Ryan Simpson (31:27.634)
Got it. Okay, so we don't need to have our ducks in a row, you high functioners who are listening.
Ale Rios (31:32.439)
Right.
Dr. Ernie (31:32.705)
If you think about it, Ryan, you know how often you go to the doctor and you know exactly What's going on with you and you tell the doctor here's what's going on. Here's what you need to do That's not or you go to the mechanic I mean there are times where you might know exactly but most of the time you bring your car to the mechanic You're like, I'm not it's making this noise. This is happening. It's not doing this It didn't used to do this now. It's doing this or it's been doing this for a while Right, so it's it's very similar. If you know it great
We'll explore it and explore what to do. But if you don't know, great, we'll explore it and figure out what to do.
Ryan Simpson (32:06.919)
great. Hopefully that's very freeing for somebody to hear. It certainly is for me. Alright, question number two is for you Dr. Judi. Somebody is ready to come in, but they're wondering am I just gonna talk about my feelings in depression therapy? Is that what this is?
Dr. Judi Allen (32:27.804)
So Ryan, mitoc therapy is just one of the ways in which we can work to tackle depression and depressive symptoms. But one thing I will strongly suggest is make sure that we're looking at some evidence-based processes and treatments that are important. So what we try to do is we help the client to build some skills.
and then learn how to manage some depressive symptoms, their triggers, understanding their emotions, maybe even learning to understand their distress tolerance skills, and then learning some skills about avoid, without avoidance, sorry, about what they tend to do with avoidance and trying to negate that. Cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the ways in which we can challenge those thoughts and identify any kind of distortions or irrational thinking.
and then help people to reframe their thoughts and build more cognitive flexibility. Other skills that might be taught could be like assertiveness, some effective communication skills, maybe even boundary setting with others, evaluating relationships that might be contributing to the depressed mood. Behavior activation is another one that focuses on breaking the cycles to identify and
pursue activities that were previously actually enjoyed and trying to get them to purposely get involved in those activities once again, making small steps towards improvement. Somatic therapy is something, which I know that's kind of a buzzword lately, but that is something that can be extremely helpful for working with a depressed individual, whether it's textbook depression or those hidden depressions that we've been talking about.
Ryan Simpson (34:10.374)
Mmm.
Dr. Judi Allen (34:20.168)
So the one thing I would say, the most important thing is focusing on self-care. And hopefully that when you find the right therapist, that therapist is really gonna highlight that and make sure that you understand why that's so important.
Ryan Simpson (34:35.446)
Okay, can you elaborate what self-care is? No?
Dr. Judi Allen (34:40.906)
paying more attention to yourself and what your needs are instead of being so externally focused on things and how the world is running past us so fastly, but like just being more internal. Like, I don't know, it might be taking a break, taking a nap. It could be have an extra cup of coffee today if you so want it, maybe not the best for high anxiety, but, or maybe it's going to get a manicure, something like that.
Ryan Simpson (35:07.1)
Guilty.
Okay.
Dr. Judi Allen (35:10.846)
treating yourself to something.
Ryan Simpson (35:13.094)
Got it. Okay. Thank you.
Dr. Ernie (35:14.069)
Yes. Couldn't you just break that down, Ryan, and just say, it's care of self, right? Just like, what does care of a child look like? Well, when you're caring for a child, you're caring, right? You're showing care and you're doing things because you care for that child. We also have to care one of our responsibilities. If we don't care for ourselves, someone else has to, right? We should care for ourselves as one of our primary roles to care for ourselves.
Ryan Simpson (35:37.308)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ernie (35:42.337)
not in a self-absorbed, selfish sort of way, but in a wise, helpful, and responsible and accountable way. So I think that's it. And with regards to talking about feelings or something like that in therapy, you asked that question earlier, we're certainly going to talk about feelings. Sometimes people say, oh, therapy, you just talk about childhood. I would say what you're talking about is the things that came before. Well, what came before this?
That just happens to be, mean, if before we weren't kids, if we were born adults, we'd be just talking about early adulthood. Right. But we were born children. So we're going to talk about childhood sometimes, right? Because it happened before. It's the stuff that happened before. We're going to certainly talk about feelings because it's an important part of us. Just like we're going to talk about thoughts, just like we're going to talk about your body, just like we're going to talk about all sorts of things that are important.
Ryan Simpson (36:20.123)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Ernie (36:39.967)
right, depending on their importance on that topic.
Ryan Simpson (36:44.005)
So, Dr. Ernie though, if someone doesn't feel like talking? They know they need help, but they don't want to talk about it. How would you approach somebody with an attitude or position like
Dr. Ernie (36:57.185)
Yeah, so that's really common, right? Who's going to want to talk about this stuff? You want to go talk about your depression? Oh yeah, I'm so excited to do that. You don't have to want to do it to do it. I remember one time I saw this all. I swimming in this in this pool and I saw a little girl on the side of the pool and she was afraid to jump in right and the parents were there. No, you can do it. You can tell she wanted to, but she was really afraid and this older lady just was swimming by and she paused and she goes.
Ryan Simpson (37:06.391)
It sounds great.
Dr. Ernie (37:26.143)
You can be scared and still do it and then just kept swimming and the little girl jumped. Right. So it's not abnormal at all to not want to talk about this. Good therapy means we're going to slow things down. You're not going to have the perfect thoughts. You're not going to have everything right away. Sometimes we start small things, right? Or we start with the things that you do know, right? Or we explore where things might be going right or where they might be going wrong.
It's not at all uncommon to not want to do that. But usually, you know, sometimes you like recovery stuff, they talk about being sick and tired of being sick and tired. Right? You know, I don't want to be this way. I don't want to feel this way anymore. So I don't really want to go talk about that stuff, but I'm going to go do it.
Ryan Simpson (38:07.034)
Mmm.
Ryan Simpson (38:17.016)
Yeah, so I don't want to not want to anymore. Yeah. Okay, so This always comes up right? This question is for for you. Dr. Whenever we're thinking about, mental health and having that conversation is medication Am I gonna need medication? In order to move through this is that really the only solution?
Dr. Ernie (38:19.477)
Right, yeah.
Dr. Judi Allen (38:39.388)
It's not the only solution, Ryan. And one of the things, it can be part of the solution. One of the things that's important to understand that if somebody is using medication to treat depression or other mental health issues, usually they need to do it alongside therapy and treatments. Otherwise it's not going to be as effective. There's more than one, more than one way to kind of manage depression and medication is only one of them.
So some of the other things that really help, obviously therapy is another big benefit, but other basic things like changing your eating habits or sleeping habits or starting to become physically active again and getting some exercise. I'm not saying you have to go work out and be super physically fit, but just get some movement and get some activity going in your body. Those are cures for depression right there.
So like that's the top three forms of free treatment is monitor your diet and eat healthy, get good sleep and make sure that you're getting adequate number of hours of sleep and then get some physical activity going. You could probably feel a lot different with just those three things.
Ryan Simpson (39:59.384)
Okay, I'm sure that probably brings a lot of hope to a lot of listeners. It always does to me. It's helpful to be reminded that those three things are free, of time. All right, so as we start, you needing to wrap this up, I always like to give takeaways, right, to our listeners. I'd love for each of you, if someone listening feels like they're struggling with one of these forms of hidden depression,
Dr. Judi Allen (40:10.237)
you
Ryan Simpson (40:27.681)
and they could make only one internal shift this year. There's lots of year left, but if they could only do one thing this year to maybe shift how they're approaching this, what would you want it to be? Ali, can you start us off?
Ale Rios (40:42.059)
Yeah, the main thing that comes to mind is we talked a few minutes ago about self-care and self-care is like Dr. Ernie said, taking care of self, but all the different parts of yourself, the physical health, the mental health, energy, food, sleep, these are all like our basic needs, but we also need to make sure we're taking care of our emotional wellness and how
we talk to ourself. So the one shift I would say that listeners can do is listen to yourself talk and try to treat yourself with some self compassion because it is such a small change but to talk to yourself kindly can leave such a lasting impact.
Dr. Ernie (41:34.431)
That's such a big one, Alec. You know, so many people are not talking to themselves at all in a kind way. They would never talk to someone else that way. So sometimes just having the rule of, I'm gonna talk to myself like I actually like myself. I'm gonna talk to myself like I would a good friend. If I wouldn't say this to my best friend, to a good friend, then I'm not gonna say it to myself.
Ale Rios (42:01.867)
Exactly.
Ryan Simpson (42:03.8)
I had a friend actually tell me that he wanted to beat me up for the way that I was speaking to myself. He's like, I'm gonna fight, he's like, I wanna fight that guy, he's being a piece of crap, yeah. Exactly, yeah, yeah, was really, really good back to earth. Yeah, it was funny, but it's really great point, so I think that's a fantastic, fantastic shift, so thank you, Ollie. Dr. Judi, can you go next?
Dr. Ernie (42:10.697)
Yes. You're talking to my friend right now, like, right now.
Ale Rios (42:11.351)
Right.
Ale Rios (42:15.691)
That's my friend you're talking to. Tell them to be quiet. Listen to me. I'm kind to you.
Dr. Judi Allen (42:31.914)
I think one of the biggest tips I would have is learn how to separate your wealth, I'm sorry, your wealth, sorry, your worth from your level of functioning. You are not what you do. You're a lot more than who you are as an individual. So when we were speaking earlier about the overachievers, your identity is not tied to your outcome measures. So you are more than that. That's one thing is separate it.
Ryan Simpson (42:39.17)
What
Ryan Simpson (43:00.632)
Mmm.
Dr. Ernie (43:01.589)
Yeah, that's so powerful. mean, a lot of cultures, you ask, you know, tell me about yourself. And the first thing they don't say, they don't say what it is they do. Like, you know, I'm you know, special touch or I, you know, I'm a therapist or this. They say, you know, I, you know, I like to take walks or I like to do that. You know, like they tell you about themselves, right? Their self-worth is an end. If you think about like a newborn baby, when they're born, they can't do anything.
Ryan Simpson (43:22.891)
Yeah.
Dr. Ernie (43:30.517)
cry, eat, sleep, poop and pee. That's about all a baby can do, right? But they have worth, right? And then you learn all sorts of other things that are just cool bonuses. You had worth when all you could do is cry, eat, sleep, poop and pee, right? You definitely have value. Sorry to be so goofy about that. But, you know, that's such an important point, right? So many people put their identity in what they do and it's hard not to do. We probably all catch ourselves doing that sometimes.
But to stop and say, that's not what actually gives me value. I already had value. This is just a bonus, right? Don't do this in order to be lovable. You're lovable, so go do.
Ryan Simpson (44:14.487)
That's a revolutionary mindset that flips cultures on its head when we actually embrace it, that we are intrinsically valuable. And so, man, what a meaningful shift I think that would be. And if all of us did that on our own, man, what would our culture look like in a year? Thank you, Dr. Judi. Okay, Dr. Ernie, can you bring us home?
Dr. Ernie (44:39.553)
Sure, With the high functioning depression, right? And with these hidden depressions, probably is maybe a powerful thing is to stop saying what's wrong with me and start just saying, what am I responding to? What's going on? What am I running from? Maybe I can, I'm so busy, I'm so high functioning, but if I'm not having joy, right?
We should be able to rejoice, right? Be joyful, right? Be full, live full lives, right? Overflow, right? And if we're not feeling that joy, not that we can't, right? There's certainly times, I'm not saying we all have to be there all the time, but if that's not a general state of our being, something's probably wrong. And if we're super high functioning and that's not it, you're doing all of this and it's not yielding.
joy, it's not yielding peace, it's not yielding rest, right? So, you know, saying, what's going on with my system? Maybe it's time to look at that. If that's going on, maybe it's time to look at that and then be kind to yourself and, you know, say, what's my mind and my body carrying? Then let me go figure it out and do things differently.
Ryan Simpson (45:59.068)
great. Well that's three fantastic shifts. So thank you so much team for for walking us through that. I'm going to talk to our listeners real quick. If anything we discussed today sounded familiar, this team and the depression counseling services at the Counseling Center can help you understand what's happening beneath the surface and learn and adopt some of these practical ways that we've talked about to help you move forward this year. If you want to learn more about those things you can
Call us at 407-843-4968 or visit counselingcorner.net where you can see more information or find out information about our offices in Orlando, Claremont, Orange City, or even VU Telehealth across Florida. If this episode resonated with you, please consider liking, subscribing, or maybe sharing it with somebody who you think is carrying a weight silently or in a hidden way that they could maybe use the support as well.
Don't tell them to get up. Tell them that you'll get up with them. And then subscribe to RealLife Counseling for more conversations about mental health in real life. Until next time, take care of yourselves and the people that you love. Thank you so much, team. It's good to talk to you again. I will see you soon.
Dr. Ernie (47:14.785)
Love it, Ryan. Thanks.
Dr. Judi Allen (47:14.887)
Thank you.
Ryan Simpson (47:16.393)
Thank you.