Understanding Anxiety in Kids: A Guide for Parents

Show Notes:

In this episode of Real Life Counseling, Ryan Simpson and Dr. Ernie Reilly discuss the growing issue of anxiety in children. They explore the signs of anxiety, both obvious and overlooked, and delve into effective counseling approaches, including Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Dr. Reilly emphasizes the importance of parental support and co-regulation in helping children manage anxiety, providing practical tips for parents to foster a supportive environment.

Takeaways

• Anxiety is increasingly prevalent in children today.

• Common signs of anxiety include irritability and avoidance.

• Anger in children can often be a manifestation of anxiety.

• Counseling approaches should be tailored to each child.

• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a gold standard for treating anxiety.

• Parents should focus on co-regulation to help their anxious children.

• It's important for parents to model calmness and emotional regulation.

• Teaching children to control what they can is crucial.

• Most things in life work out, so focus on the positives.

• Seeking professional help is essential when anxiety is evident.

Chapters

• 00:00 Understanding Anxiety in Children

• 08:12 Approaches to Counseling for Anxiety

• 12:29 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Explained

• 15:31 Supporting Children with Anxiety

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Transcript:

Ryan Simpson (00:01.05)

if this doesn't take too long and we wanted to

Ryan Simpson (00:08.764)

just go back and do adults then as well so that we can do both. Because I think we were trying to do that in this hour, right? Is that okay still?

Ernie Reilly (00:17.486)

Yeah, it's probably as I just didn't prepare really for it, I'd love to see how turns out.

Ryan Simpson (00:20.712)

Oh, okay. I mean, you're like, if you're not comfortable, then no big deal. can do marriage and adult anxiety next week since there'll be more time. Is that okay? Okay. Before we get going, let's put next week on the calendar, because it's a little bit busier day for me on Thursday.

Ernie Reilly (00:30.253)

Okay.

Ernie Reilly (00:34.626)

Yeah, either one.

Ryan Simpson (00:48.808)

What availability do you have?

next week. Anything in the morning on Thursday? Yeah, okay. I don't want do that to you. What about 430 to 530?

Ernie Reilly (00:59.436)

It had to be like early.

Ernie Reilly (01:07.234)

I've got that.

next week, 430 to 530, I've got it Tuesday.

Ernie Reilly (01:22.19)

Tuesday or Thursday or Friday.

Ryan Simpson (01:25.83)

Let's grab Thursday. Keep on this weekly calendar we got going.

Ryan Simpson (01:37.64)

Okay, all right, so I've got that blocked.

and I'll set up the invite with the info. Great. All right. It feels good to have that checked off. Thank you.

Ernie Reilly (01:52.366)

I'm just trying to get into my schedule real quick.

Ryan Simpson (01:54.405)

Okay.

Ernie Reilly (02:12.632)

Okay, got it.

Ryan Simpson (02:15.08)

Perfect. Thanks. Okay. Let me fix my screen here.

Ryan Simpson (02:28.776)

All right, we'll see how well that holds.

Ryan Simpson (02:35.336)

There we go.

Alright, you ready to jump in? Let's do it!

Ernie Reilly (02:41.293)

Yes, sir.

Ryan Simpson (02:47.696)

All right, welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here each week with Dr. Ernie, founder of The Counseling Corner and licensed mental health professional. Together we explore practical real world questions about mental health, relationships, parenting and healing. Whether you're curious about therapy, working through something tough or trying to support someone you love, this space is for you. Dr. Ernie, how you doing today?

Ernie Reilly (03:11.886)

I'm doing great. Thank you, Brian.

Ryan Simpson (03:13.842)

Great, you having a good week so far?

Ernie Reilly (03:15.724)

Yes, sir.

Ryan Simpson (03:17.018)

Okay, all right. Well, let's jump right in. I have been anxious to talk about this topic. We are talking about anxiety today. Specifically, I'm hoping to learn about anxiety for kids, in kids, how to help kids, because it seems like this is something that's growing in our society, the permeation of anxiety, and it's not going away. And as a new parent, I'd love to get ahead of it.

and to make sure that I can help my kids as much as possible. I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling like that. So first question for you on this topic is gonna be what are some of the obvious signs of anxiety for kids and what are some of the signs that people might overlook that might cause us to miss it?

Ernie Reilly (04:03.982)

Sure, sure. Great question. And you're right, is something that is, there's a lot of anxiety out there. When people think of anxiety, they often picture maybe, know, racing thoughts, trouble sleeping, a pounding heart or a tight chest, constant worrying or overthinking, maybe avoiding situations that feel overwhelming or even panic attacks.

Ryan Simpson (04:28.936)

Mm.

Ernie Reilly (04:29.87)

Those are kind of the obvious signs and then kind of the sort of overlooked signs, the signs that you don't necessarily think of automatically a lot of times is the constant overthinking. That's real, real, a lot of that or second guessing or even perfectionism. Behind perfectionism oftentimes can be anxiety.

irritability, snapping over little things, especially in kids, anger in kids, oftentimes can be anxiety. It's not always, but it certainly can be anxiety. Anxiety usually shows up as anger with children. Procrastination can be another one because you're kind of frozen by fear or fear of messing up. Certainly stomach issues or headaches, avoiding things like phone calls, emails or plans.

Ryan Simpson (05:02.128)

Interesting.

Ernie Reilly (05:19.856)

maybe needing excessive reassurance. Did I do that right? Was that okay? What do you think about that? Look at needing excessive reassurance, feeling, sometimes you say feeling wired but tired all the time, right? So when you're sort of wired but also tired, right? That can be a sign of anxiety. And then again, in children, anxiety often shows up as anger, defiance or avoidance.

Ryan Simpson (05:20.306)

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Simpson (05:28.488)

Hmm.

Ryan Simpson (05:49.81)

Got it. Okay. So anger, defiance, avoidance, you mentioned, yeah, I wanted to ask more about the anger thing because everybody knows about tantrums, right? With kids. Is there a way, something that you look for that says, is just a, you know, this is a kid having a tantrum versus this is a kid that might actually have something else going on.

Ernie Reilly (06:14.552)

Yeah, so we're looking at what the anger or the issue is, so what's behind it, right? So if it's just a kid having a tantrum, it's usually they wanted something, they didn't get it, or they got something that they didn't want, right? Or they got in trouble for something that they did, right? Just last week, for instance, I had several kids come in. One was a nine-year-old. It was just being difficult.

Ryan Simpson (06:22.824)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (06:43.31)

go to bed, right? But it turned out there was a ton of resistance there and underneath that was a lot of anxiety, right? So once we worked with the anxiety, we able to get that issue ironed out. It wasn't just a kid who just didn't want to go to sleep because he wanted to stay up because his brother is older and gets to stay up or something like that. There was actually anxiety there. Another kid was refusing to go to school, right? Believe it or not, that's pretty common that kids will just refuse or they're just so...

Ryan Simpson (07:01.608)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (07:12.662)

upset about going to school and we're not talking about a kid who just didn't do their homework or didn't, you know, doesn't want to go because there's something due or something like that. We're talking about a kid who's really got a lot of strong, strong resistance and had a kid come in just last week with that and that was anxiety as well. So once we were able to work through a little bit of that anxiety, even within a week, we were able to see some lessening of that issue. I think there was two weeks ago that that kid came in.

Ryan Simpson (07:18.525)

Yeah.

Ryan Simpson (07:38.002)

Really?

Ryan Simpson (07:42.0)

What was it that was sorry for interrupting you? I'm just curious because I'm thinking about somebody who's listening wanting to see if it's their kid. What was it that made it strong resistance? Because there are strong-willed children, right? But this sounds like maybe it was a little bit beyond even just like a headstrong child.

Ernie Reilly (07:42.712)

Head in the other direction, Yep, go ahead.

Yeah, no worries.

Ernie Reilly (08:04.846)

Yeah, so the strong resistance is they couldn't get this kid to go to school, right? The kid really just was refusing outright. They had the favorite teacher come over, right? By the time they came to see me, they'd already tried a bunch of stuff. They had the school counselor, right? The favorite teacher come over, right? And all the sort of things that would normally, right? How about if I walk you into class, right? Things of that sort. And child was still super resistant to it.

Ryan Simpson (08:20.84)

Okay.

Ryan Simpson (08:30.248)

Yeah.

Ernie Reilly (08:34.882)

meaning just outright refusing.

Ryan Simpson (08:37.256)

Wow, okay, all right, yeah, so okay, I understand now. So there's almost like a progression that had already happened that got it to like, let's go see Dr. Ernie and they saw you for a week and started to see some progress.

Ernie Reilly (08:44.706)

Yes, sir.

Ernie Reilly (08:52.054)

Yeah, that one I think was about two weeks ago and I think I've seen them twice and we're already starting to see some progress in reducing that. Sometimes it takes quite a bit longer, sometimes it takes just a short little time, depends on what the issues are.

Ryan Simpson (09:06.064)

It's nice and there's hope.

Ryan Simpson (09:10.458)

Okay, so I think that's a decent segue then in my second question, which was how do you approach anxiety for kids at the counseling corner? Like is there a protocol, is there a playbook that you run when you think this might be going on? What's the experience like for families bringing their kids in?

Ernie Reilly (09:32.6)

Good question. Yeah, so we try to tailor our approach to each person, right? But the goal is pretty much the same. Help a person feel more in control, less overwhelmed, better equipped to respond to stress. We try to combine like practical tools with deeper work, right?

on what's underneath the issue, but we also want to help them develop the practical tools to help work with the anxiety as it exists, right? So if we can resolve the issue underneath, which typically that's what we're trying to do, and then also teach some techniques to help them deal with it when it is there, right? We can usually get that anxiety either...

The frequency, the intensity, or the duration are all three. We're trying to get all three lower with the anxiety and then get them doing great. So the goal is always to help them feel more in control and less overwhelmed.

Some of the some real basic stuff that people at home can think through is, you know, as I always start a little bit with the idea, these are just basic stuff before we go to the deeper stuff of, you know, control what you can control, let go what you can't control. Right. And then focus on the.

Ryan Simpson (10:44.776)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (10:46.976)

Now with young kids, you're not going to use those words, but you can still be trying to teach them, right? And certainly as a parent, you can be trying to model, control what you can control, let go of what you can't control, and then, you know, marinate in or, know.

focus on that positive, positive things in life. Most people tend to get that backwards, Ryan. Most people are spending a whole lot of time not controlling the things that they could control. They're spending a whole lot of time focusing on the things they can't control, right? And then it's virtually impossible if you're not controlling the things you can and you're not letting go of the things you can. It's virtually impossible to not focus on the negative, right? So they're not controlling the things. They're not doing the things that they could do. They're trying to do things

Ryan Simpson (11:09.435)

Mm-hmm

Ernie Reilly (11:33.732)

that they can't control, trying to control the things they can't, and then they're focusing on the negative. So we're gonna flip that around and help them do the things. And even coming to treatment is one of those things that they can control. They can go get help. That's something that they can control. So that's a basic thing that we might start a little bit with. We also might start with some...

Ryan Simpson (11:46.557)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (11:58.764)

you know, teaching like a basic question, you know, what if this works out? Because most things do, right? So that's a good thing to keep in mind. What if this works out? Because most things in life work out. Not everything does, but most things do. So what if this works out? Another basic concept to help parents kind of think about is don't sweat the small stuff and realize most things are small stuff.

Ryan Simpson (12:04.977)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (12:22.604)

Right? Especially a new parent will think everything is huge. Everything is, you know, the big, you know, right? Yeah. And so not sweating the small stuff and realize most things, you know, you're not going to be talking about this when they're 25 years old, right? You're not going to be talking about, you're not going to be talking to their kids about, about this little thing, right? This is, you know, most things are small things. now that being said, there is a lot of anxiety that requires a lot more complexity than just simple things like that. Most anxiety does.

Ryan Simpson (12:37.864)

Mm-hmm.

Ernie Reilly (12:52.528)

But at least you start with some of simple stuff that people can think about when they're at home. You know, those are some things I can try. Some questions I can ask myself, some approaches to make sure I'm doing what I can, controlling what I can, letting go of what I can, trying not to sweat the small stuff, right? But if it's clear that there's anxiety, then just go get some help, right? Work on that, figure out what's underneath it, and then learn some good techniques how to deal with the anxiety as well.

Ryan Simpson (13:19.708)

Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of positive thinking as a skill set. Because I know we're talking about anxiety for kids, but I'm feeling targeted in terms of all the controlling the things you can control and what if it doesn't work out, right? So teaching ourselves to think that way and then teaching our kids to think that way as well is that just feels so invaluable. But beyond those

So those are great approaches in my research though in starting or to prepare for this episode. I did come across things like CBT, EMDR, ART, so all these different, I guess modalities is the word for like the professional therapy word for a way to approach some of these things. I was wondering, could you maybe tell us a little bit more about, CBT seemed to be the one that came up the most. What that is and how that.

plays a role in working through anxiety with kids.

Ernie Reilly (14:22.456)

Certainly, yeah. And CBT is, yeah, that's gonna come up a lot because that's probably one of our gold standards for the most effective way to treat anxiety. It helps people recognize the anxious thought patterns, Challenge them and build new, healthier responses. It's not the only approach, and there is actually different versions of CBT too. You can have all...

Trauma-focused CBT, so if the anxiety is coming maybe from some trauma, that may help you actually work through the trauma stuff. You can also exposure therapy or exposure and response prevention, which is a form of cognitive behavioral therapy as well. That's an effective approach for especially working with maybe opposition, mean, obsessive compulsive disorder.

Ryan Simpson (14:55.665)

Okay.

Ryan Simpson (15:12.328)

Hmm.

Ernie Reilly (15:13.644)

that because that's a form of anxiety. So and then sometimes if there's a lot of trauma we may also use some other techniques like accelerated resolution therapy or EMDR therapy depending on the person's age and what's going on and trauma level and such we may we may try that.

Ryan Simpson (15:16.027)

Okay.

Ryan Simpson (15:34.226)

Got it. Okay.

Ernie Reilly (15:34.53)

Yeah, so cognitive behavior was really huge. I have one client that really clicked with cognitive behavioral therapy. We worked to identify her what-if thoughts, tested their accuracy of the what-if thoughts, and then replaced them with what we call anchoring truths. And this was just maybe a few weeks ago. within a few sessions, her anxiety attacks were a

intense, less frequency, less intensity, less duration.

Ryan Simpson (16:06.362)

Okay, so cognitive behavioral therapy is like working through essentially the repetitive thought patterns or the behavior of your brain as you're navigating life. Is that a decent way to think about it or can you fix my interpretation?

Ernie Reilly (16:22.028)

Yeah, that's a great way to think about it.

Ryan Simpson (16:25.668)

Okay, all right, so then that makes sense, yeah, because so many of the thought patterns lead to places, right? And anxiety might be a place people can lead. So as I'm thinking about the parents, though, who think they might have a child, right, who is relating to some of these anxiety topics we've been talking about, how can those parents best support their kid? What are some things that parents can do

to support their kids who either might have anxiety or definitely do and are going through it.

Ernie Reilly (17:00.066)

Yeah, so part of the issue is that parents will get so anxious about their child's anxiety, right?

Ryan Simpson (17:08.072)

Mm.

Ernie Reilly (17:08.352)

And so part of it is to start with the idea of I'm not fixing the anxiety. I'm helping my child feel safe and seen. Right. And then I'm looking for what's underneath it and I'm working on as I stay calm. Right. We can do what's called co-regulation. Right. So I'm regulating my own emotions and being there for them. And that comes before self-regulation. Right. So I co-regulate with

them and then that helps them eventually self-regulate, right? That means your calm comes before their calm, right? Yeah. Yes, yes. And co-regulation is just when someone stays calm, right, connected and attuned with you and when y'all...

Ryan Simpson (17:47.016)

They're catching it. More is caught than taught. I've heard that said. Okay.

Ernie Reilly (18:03.032)

their calmness helps you. And it's like when, you know, like a parent hugs a child and sits with a child or a friend sits with you and just breathes slowly with you, right? While you're panicking or while you're super anxious and then you can help them start to calm down and then your calm becomes their calm. So those are some things. Some of the do's, right, that you'd want to do is validate their feelings.

Ryan Simpson (18:21.532)

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Simpson (18:25.042)

Got it. Okay.

Ernie Reilly (18:32.012)

I see you're really nervous right now, maybe putting some words to it so that they know what's going on. Model calming strategies, breathing, slowing down, naming emotions.

good idea obviously if there's a decent amount of anxiety going on is to partner with a therapist who can help. Both of you feel more equipped, right? And then it's easier to become if you feel more equipped, you got the techniques to use. Some of the things to not do are the don'ts, right? You know, don't dismiss it or you're fine, it's not a big deal or knock it off, right? That sort of stuff that usually doesn't help a whole lot.

Ryan Simpson (18:55.644)

Yeah.

Ernie Reilly (19:09.784)

push too fast, certainly don't let your anxiety drive your emotions. That's what we were talking about just a minute ago.

Ryan Simpson (19:20.134)

Yeah, that's the big one, I think.

Ernie Reilly (19:22.296)

Yeah.

Ryan Simpson (19:23.752)

because it's so easy to see, especially if my child's upset, how easy it is to match them in their upset level, even if it's about their upsetness. So yeah, think that's probably gonna be a strong one that I'm gonna be working on for the next few years, as this is an ongoing thing. Okay, well, I think that's a fantastic place to wrap today, and you've given us a lot of really great tips.

Ernie Reilly (19:40.686)

certain.

Ryan Simpson (19:52.604)

good do's, good don'ts, good things to consider. so we'll definitely find a way to make sure that we get all this condensed and onto the site so that people can check this out. If they listen and want to go back and reference it, the site's, it's www.counselingcorner.net. You'll be able to find information about these episodes and what we talk about there. But I think we can wrap it there. So thanks for joining us on Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner.

If today's conversation helped you or got you thinking, we'd love it if you would share this episode, leave us a review, give us a follow. And if you need more information about anxiety for your kid or yourself or anything else or just want to connect with a counselor, please visit us online. Until next time, take care of yourself and the people you love. Thanks, Dr. Ernie. Have a good week.

Ernie Reilly (20:41.486)

All right, thanks, Ryan.