Marriage Counseling for Healthier Relationships
Show Notes
In this episode of Real Life Counseling, Ryan Simpson and Dr. Ernie discuss the intricacies of marriage counseling, exploring what couples can expect during sessions, the importance of communication, and practical habits for building healthier relationships. They delve into common issues such as resentment and recurring conflicts, emphasizing that one partner's willingness to engage can significantly impact the relationship. The conversation highlights the importance of gratitude, understanding, and teamwork in navigating marital challenges.
Key Takeaways:
Healthy relationships are built on small, consistent habits.
Couples counseling provides a structured space for honest communication.
It's important to have daily check-ins to strengthen relationships.
Expressing appreciation can significantly enhance emotional connection.
Avoid scorekeeping and unspoken expectations in relationships.
Practice gratitude to combat feelings of entitlement.
Conflict should be approached as a team effort, not a battle.
Understanding each other's world is crucial for connection.
One partner's engagement can lead to positive changes in the relationship.
Learning to repair and forgive is essential for long-term success.
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Transcript:
Ryan Simpson (06:03.038)
All right. Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here each week with Dr. Ernie, founder of The Counseling Corner and licensed mental health professional. Together we explore practical real world questions about mental health, relationships, parenting, and healing. Whether you're curious about therapy, working through something tough or trying to support someone you love, this space is for you. Dr. Ernie, how are you today?
Dr Ernie (06:27.021)
I'm doing great Ryan good to see you
Ryan Simpson (06:29.279)
Yeah, you too. Happy Monday. Did you have a good weekend?
Dr Ernie (06:32.935)
Yes, sir.
Ryan Simpson (06:34.418)
anything fun happen over the weekend specifically.
Dr Ernie (06:37.831)
Well, lots of good things. know, schools back in session, right? So that's always fun. Maybe not for the kids, right? They're not always super excited about about school, but they're excited to see their friends. Right, but things are things are going good.
Ryan Simpson (06:41.674)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Ryan Simpson (06:51.285)
Good, yeah, school's not all bad. Sometimes I wish we could go back, right? All right, well, today we are talking about marriage counseling. So I know that you do a lot of marriage counseling. I am excited to hear your perspective on some of these things and learn more about what marriage counseling actually looks like. So if you're okay, I think we'll just jump right in.
Dr Ernie (06:58.128)
Right, right.
Dr Ernie (07:19.346)
Sounds good, sounds good. I wanted to tell you my, last time we talked about my son with gymnastics, right? He did make the national team. that was, yep. So the first day I think I told you he was sitting about fourth, then he did have a fall on floor, right? And so that's always, you know, in those tight competitions, that's pretty hard. So he dropped way down to like eighth, right? And then he had to work back up.
Ryan Simpson (07:25.287)
yeah.
He made the actual team.
Dr Ernie (07:45.798)
But ever since he's been young and been pretty mentally strong, we always taught him like, why do you fall down? And he'll tell you to learn how to get back up. So he fell down and they got back up and they nailed it and ended up making the national team.
Ryan Simpson (07:56.074)
Bye.
Ryan Simpson (08:03.049)
How far did he have to climb from 8?
Dr Ernie (08:06.716)
So he climbed back up to six and then with his scores on a few routines like high bar and pommel, like he got tied for second, I think awarded third on one and he got second on another one. yeah, so he did really well.
Ryan Simpson (08:25.288)
Wow.
Ryan Simpson (08:29.544)
You must be so proud from like a, I'm glad you did well son, but from a mental health perspective too, I'm so proud of how resilient.
Dr Ernie (08:39.203)
yeah, he's got great resiliency. My other son too, he's a wrestler and he's getting ready to start preseason wrestling and such.
Ryan Simpson (08:47.259)
what an advantage they have. That's awesome. Okay, cool. Well, congrats to him. I'm excited about that. I'm excited to hear how national training goes.
Dr Ernie (08:57.777)
Thank you.
Ryan Simpson (08:58.524)
Yeah. Okay, so first question. What is a session of marriage counseling actually like for a couple?
Dr Ernie (09:09.41)
Well, you know great question and Clients come in for couples come in for so such a variety of reasons right they come summer in crisis, right? Infidelity or fighting or divorce threats or things like that while some come in they're just numb or emotionally distant They've you know, they've grown apart right some are just looking for tools for communication or co-parenting Some are adjusting to maybe a big transition like, you
like you guys, a new child, right? Things of that sort, right? Or maybe a blended family or, you know, a move or something like that. Then there's some that just want to come in to strengthen their, you know, they're doing great, but they just want to really be, you know, cutting edge. They just want to do the best, right? So they come in and get stronger. And they just recognize that there's a, you know, wisdom and multitude of counsel and good counseling, right? It's just like a high powered tool, right?
Ryan Simpson (09:39.978)
Mm.
Dr Ernie (10:06.735)
You're doing something important, building something important, you want to use the best tools that you have available to you. But to answer your question, given the fact that they come in with quite a variety, there's a few things that do tend to be common. Is they're all typically a little bit nervous? They're worried that they're that they're going to have to rehash all the difficulties, Or things of that sort, right?
Ryan Simpson (10:24.23)
So.
Dr Ernie (10:32.315)
But a session really should be a very safe and easy, first session should be safe and easy, right? Especially with the right therapists. There are, clients do come in fearing they'll be judged or blamed or having to rehash things, Or all that sort of stuff. They're just really nervous. but couples counseling really is just about creating a structured place for honest communication and practical growth, right?
Ryan Simpson (10:32.371)
Sure.
Ryan Simpson (10:51.09)
Yeah.
Dr Ernie (11:02.316)
not taking sides or anything like that. We just sort of unpack their patterns, right? Slow things down, introduce some new tools and they don't typically just stop fighting. They really start connecting, right? So it's, most clients come in nervous, but with the right therapist, it's super easy.
Ryan Simpson (11:22.889)
That makes sense. It's got me thinking about, I remember my wife and I before kids, we would be able to talk all the time, come home from work and process the day together. that kind of what you call it, like the safe structured space for communication just kind of happened, right? That's part of natural life. the busier things got, the more hours at work, the more kids we've had, it seems like those safe structured spaces that
have just been part of routine, have been less and less part of routine. So I can see how it would be so helpful to just have a space to come in and just be able to talk without the interruptions of life and be able to hear each other and speak openly.
Dr Ernie (12:08.313)
Yeah, absolutely. And if you have someone that you're meeting with, who, you know, I always say I'm sort of like, trilingual. I speak, you know, male, I speak female, you know, I speak guy talk and speak lady talk, right? I speak kid talk, right? And so if we're trying to understand their kids, can help, right? Because I basically can figure out what's going on with the child. They're trying to help understand each other.
Ryan Simpson (12:19.164)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (12:23.813)
Yeah.
Dr Ernie (12:33.549)
Right. It's good. If you've got a good therapist, they can figure out, okay, here's what he's saying or here's what she's saying. Right. And so in addition to just having that sacred space where they can come, right. Talk about stuff. You also have someone who can add a lot to it.
Ryan Simpson (12:48.114)
Yeah, I've seen I've seen lots of you know that they're they're comedy videos about you know the marriage interpreter Who helps the other couple understand what the other person is saying, but you know there's truth in every joke So I think that makes sense All right
Dr Ernie (12:56.354)
Right, yeah.
Dr Ernie (13:03.373)
Yeah, I saw one comedian talking about like a text message app that could just change. The guy says, you know, like two words and then it goes to really extensive sort of thing. Right. So it's beautiful language to the wife and the wife says like all this beautiful language. And then it comes in like, bought tea, right? You know, or something like that. It translated in just a little, little segment.
Ryan Simpson (13:14.746)
You
Ryan Simpson (13:27.116)
my god, there's a dystopian AI use case there. That is for sure. That's funny. Okay, so one thing that you said though in terms of why people come in actually popped out to me and I hoping you could maybe elaborate more on it. are people that have come in just wanting to maybe strengthen their relationship before things escalate. And so I'm sure a decent amount of people listening, know, things are okay. You know, we're not having knockout, drag out fights every day, but they can...
Dr Ernie (13:28.91)
Yes.
Dr Ernie (13:56.591)
Yeah, good question. Yeah, so one of the things we say all the time is healthy relationships typically aren't found, they're built, right? And strong relationships are built on small, consistent habits, right? So I could probably name at least a dozen of things
Ryan Simpson (13:56.807)
you know, things just kind of build over time, right? So what are some early habits that couples can be working on now for a healthier relationship in general without having to go all the way to the counseling phase?
Ryan Simpson (14:17.851)
Mmm.
Dr Ernie (14:25.87)
a dozen things that people could do and maybe, you know, probably give you a few that people shouldn't do. Right? Some of the things is try to be friends, right? You know, turn towards each other, not away. That's really important, right? Strive towards, you know, trying to have like five positive interactions to every one negative, right? Occasionally there are negative things, but if you build like that bank account of having a bunch of positive, that really makes a difference, right? Another thing that we, yeah.
Ryan Simpson (14:37.51)
Mm.
Ryan Simpson (14:52.122)
good ratio.
Dr Ernie (14:54.348)
Another you were mentioning like, you know, having that time to talk. So having daily check-ins. Ask what was your biggest challenge today or what, you know, where's your heart or even five, 10 minutes of that sort of stuff, right? Just builds closeness, right? Lots of couples every night after the kids go to sleep will spend five, 10, 15, 20 minutes, right? Just connecting. If you don't do that, it really can, you know, that's just a really healthy habit to have, right?
Ryan Simpson (15:23.291)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Ernie (15:24.258)
Another one is speak appreciation like out loud, right? You know, say the positives, right? So many times we think they know it and they probably do, right? But don't just assume they know it, say it, right? Thanks for making the coffee or you were great with the kids today or you know, thanks for working so hard, something like that.
Ryan Simpson (15:30.695)
Hmm.
Ryan Simpson (15:36.283)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (15:44.902)
Yeah, words of affirmation is a love language for a reason, right? It's not thoughts of affirmation. Yeah.
Dr Ernie (15:49.602)
You know, right, exactly right. Nobody ever this right. I thought it so that's what mattered, right? I mean, it matters that you think it, but it's more important or it's equally important that you say it right. know you get us even to say it right. Another thing is letting go of control, right? We all walk around so much. Oftentimes trying to control things. Just appreciate your partner for who they are, not who you want them to be on a particular day. Alright, so that's an important thing, right?
Ryan Simpson (15:56.259)
Yeah, of course.
Ryan Simpson (16:15.109)
Mmm.
Dr Ernie (16:18.03)
Another thing is when you are having discussions, maybe start with a soft startup, right? And try to use I statements. Start with the easier things and softer things and like I feel and not you always, right? You know, a lot of you statements are not so good. A lot of I statements tend to be good. Like I feel overwhelmed when the dishes pile up versus you never helped me. Right? And yeah.
Ryan Simpson (16:42.265)
Yeah, that's a totally different conversation.
Dr Ernie (16:45.957)
and you know using gender stereotypes but they tend to be a little bit true. Men love to be the knight in shining armor. They hate to be the little boy getting scolded and women love to be you know cherished right and and feel special and important and like they matter right and they don't like to be just you know discounted and and you know not not appreciated right they remember yeah yeah yeah so
Ryan Simpson (16:54.917)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (17:08.483)
Yeah, never take it for granted.
Dr Ernie (17:13.346)
You know, along with that check-in stuff also maybe would be having couples time. Right? You know, we always talk about date nights and things like that, but rituals matter. Pizza night, walks, vacations, birthday traditions, all sorts of things like that. You know, definitely have things like business meetings or family meetings, but also have couples time. Right? That's also important. Right? Business meetings are for business stuff. Right? Couples time is for couples time.
Ryan Simpson (17:33.572)
Mm.
Dr Ernie (17:42.253)
right, you know, it's probably really connecting.
Ryan Simpson (17:44.322)
Yeah, we're always getting that advice from couples who are a season ahead of us. I've never stopped dating. And business meetings, like you said, are not dates. So we are really intentional about the conversation that we have.
Dr Ernie (17:50.818)
Yeah.
Dr Ernie (17:58.049)
Yeah, that's a great idea is to have couples at different, be friends with couples, right? Or have mentor couples in your life that are, you know, way seasoned and some that are just maybe a season or two ahead of you, right? And maybe some that are about in the same boat you're in, right? It's good to have those so you can, you know, especially the seasoned ones can say, hey, this feels like a big deal, but maybe it's not. Or these things make sure you do.
because they really pay dividends, right?
Ryan Simpson (18:28.836)
Yeah, we've got a lot of wisdom and been talked off a lot of ledges. My friends like that.
Dr Ernie (18:31.999)
Yeah, absolutely. Another one is focus on doing right, not being right, right? Approach conflict as teammates, right? Not opponents. Marriage isn't about winning, it's about being on an adventure together, right? It's not you versus your partner, right? It's both of you versus the problem. So if you could take that approach, that really, you know, winning means solving things together, right? Winning doesn't mean
Ryan Simpson (18:41.332)
Oof. That's a good one.
Ryan Simpson (18:48.836)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Ernie (19:01.374)
I'm right, you're wrong. If that's your approach, then you started off wrong. You're already wrong.
Ryan Simpson (19:04.366)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (19:10.084)
That's totally fair. That makes a lot of sense.
Dr Ernie (19:13.268)
Important to practice gratitude. Nobody owes you anything. So you appreciate everything. to appreciate everything that's done for you. Instead of thinking... Especially when you've been married for a while, you can start to take things for granted. You can start to think, I'm owed this. And then you lose the gratitude. And gratitude is such a powerful thing to have. It's such a healing thing. And it's such a...
Ryan Simpson (19:26.627)
Mm-mm.
Dr Ernie (19:42.335)
good, protected from so many problems.
Ryan Simpson (19:45.464)
I think I'm really guilty of coming into marriage thinking I was owed things without knowing it. I think I just had this subconscious expectation. So yeah, the practice of gratitude and the lifting of those expectations has definitely been a game changer for us. That's a really good one.
Dr Ernie (20:03.532)
Yeah, that can be that can be big. Also learning ways to repair and forgive and relationships just like sports, right? Like like in skateboarding or like I was mentioning gymnastics, right? Or even wrestling, but you know gymnastics. If you learn how to fall well, you can do almost anything. If you don't learn how to fall well, you're going to get hurt all the time, right? But if you learn how to fall, well, you bounce right back up, right? And if you could do that, you can have all sorts of.
Ryan Simpson (20:15.928)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (20:20.291)
Mmm.
Dr Ernie (20:31.797)
things that go wrong, but they don't, they don't injure you. You just deal with that, right? You roll with it, right? You bounce back, right? You know, sometimes using, you know, low conflict phrases like I'm not your enemy. I love you. I'm not, remember we're on the same team, right? I love being on it and we're having, you know, some issues right now, but I love that we're on the same team and we can come together and solve this. Right. Those are, you know,
Ryan Simpson (20:37.805)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (20:49.731)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (20:58.615)
Yeah.
Dr Ernie (20:59.956)
powerful bounce back words, right? Another thing would be like maybe using like the pause, right? Hey, let's pause. Let's pause here and let's come back to it. Especially if you're starting to get overwhelmed or things are starting to get tense, right? Agree to pause, right? Important to ensure that you, it's important that you make sure that you come back to it though. If you don't come back to it, then the pause, right? Next time you say, we pause? The person says,
Ryan Simpson (21:02.701)
So disarmed.
Dr Ernie (21:29.769)
No way, right? It's already hard, but it's usually one who's a pursuer and one who's a distancer, right? And the pursuer is like, no way I want to pause. But they'll be willing to pause as long as the distancer is willing to return, right? But we're getting, yeah, if they're getting overwhelmed, right? Pause, return to it, but make sure you return to it. Those are some important ones.
Ryan Simpson (21:35.363)
Mmm.
Ryan Simpson (21:45.741)
So important.
Dr Ernie (21:55.37)
I'd also throw out there, you know develop some shared meaning and goals and you know know each other's world What's going on right? You'd be surprised some couples come in and they just didn't know What their spouse is thinking or going through or what? You know if they spent you know a day in their spouse's mind, they would be well, I didn't know any of this Right. Just know nothing you need to know every detail about everything somebody thinks about and I'm not talking about that
but just know their world, know what makes their heart beat, right? What's important to them, what their goals are, and then develop shared goals, shared meaning. All so those are some great things to do. Yeah, I can give him some things. Yeah, yes. So some things to not do are kind of like the opposite of those things like scorekeeping. Don't do scorekeeping, right? Avoid.
Ryan Simpson (22:32.342)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (22:37.09)
What should we not do? Yeah.
Dr Ernie (22:49.018)
unspoken expectations you were talking about coming into marriage with a lot of unspoken expectations, right? And thinking you were owed things and that sort of stuff and not even realizing it. But try to realize, okay, say what you need, right? That's important. Avoid using tech. This is real common today. Avoid using tech to escape. People escape into TV, into their phone, super big, people laying on their bed, both on their phone, not connecting at all.
Ryan Simpson (22:52.192)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Ernie (23:18.576)
I'm not saying that can't be a good thing in some ways, but if you spend enough time connecting, then you can enjoy the little adventures into watching something or looking at this cool, or learning something on your phone.
Ryan Simpson (23:31.232)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (23:35.233)
Because there's always that little twinge of guilt, right, when you're sitting with your spouse, but you're not with your spouse. And so that's a much more enjoyable thing when you've already done the connection and you can actually almost escape together. Yeah.
Dr Ernie (23:46.858)
Right, right, then you don't feel guilty. Right. It's just natural that, if we really feel connected, then we can enjoy these other things. But if we haven't and we're escaping doing that, that's where it becomes problematic. Right. And one other one is, you know, this is kind of a big one. Avoid criticism that's dressed up as help. Right. A lot of times we will like, I'm just helping. Right. So affirm first and then address the issues gently.
Ryan Simpson (24:00.543)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Dr Ernie (24:16.501)
Remember you're on the same team. You love each other, you care about each other, you care about how this person receives, and the best way you work together is by working together.
Ryan Simpson (24:28.992)
Yeah, I've heard this ad nauseum and it feels so basic, but it almost never fails the feedback sandwich, right? Where you share something positive, put the criticism or the constructive criticism in the middle and then finish with an encouragement. And if I just do the middle, it is never as effective as the full sandwich. It's worth the extra effort.
Dr Ernie (24:50.766)
Right. Absolutely.
Ryan Simpson (24:55.712)
Yeah. Okay. Say somebody has fallen into some of these habits, right? Or there are just some things that are happening that keep dragging the same stuff back up. Maybe resentment is starting to build, or there's a couple that's just having the same fight over and over again. It feels like every time we talk, we end up in a fight. How would you help a couple who maybe is dealing with some issues of resentment or recurring conflicts?
Dr Ernie (25:24.968)
Sure, sure. Good question. I would say resentment, it's important to pay attention to because it's sort of like, and this is kind of a gross way to put it, but it's sort of like mold, like black mold or something like that. It's silent, right? It grows quietly, but then it begins to overwhelm and it can become poisonous, right? Toxic, right? Pretty quickly, right? If you don't take care of it. So you want to be really careful with resentment. If you're starting to feel resentment,
Ryan Simpson (25:36.629)
Mmm.
Dr Ernie (25:53.265)
Right, especially if it's becoming contempt or bitterness, right? You really want to when you get to those levels, you really need to, okay, we need to do something right because that can become some so poisonous. Good counseling turns things like resentment and such and conflict into conversations. Right, and then conversations into connection. Right, so if you if you get some assistance and you're like, okay, we I'm starting to feel this.
Right? Feelings aren't your enemy. Feelings are like kids. Pay close attention to them. Nurture them. Care for them. Just don't let them run the show. Right? You let kids run the show. Right? How long until your household is, you know, not doing so well? Or you let them drive the bus. Right? Your bus is going to end up in the ditch. Right? So, so pay attention that the resentment is building and then do something about it. Right? So, okay, this is, we know that there's something wrong.
Ryan Simpson (26:31.329)
Mmm.
Ryan Simpson (26:41.078)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (26:47.733)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Ernie (26:50.376)
One thing to do maybe step one might be, know, name the pattern, right? Name the issue, right? In therapy we'll do that, right? We sort of map out their conflict style, their triggers, their feelings, their reactions so that they can start seeing things clearly and then change the steps, right? Step two maybe is teach repair rituals, right? Or, sorry, my...
Dr Ernie (27:23.079)
My puppy dog is jumping up here with me. All right, step two is teach repair rituals. Most couples aren't fighting about what they think they're fighting about. So if you know that what you're fighting about really isn't probably the main issue, and you know how to repair it, you can do all sorts of things.
Ryan Simpson (27:25.919)
Okay.
Ryan Simpson (27:36.224)
Interesting.
Ryan Simpson (27:49.248)
It feels like it comes up almost in every conversation we have, but it's like that the presenting issue is never the real issue. It's always a symptom of what's underneath. so, yeah, being able to find what that underneath is feels like the core of good counseling.
Dr Ernie (27:56.967)
in the snow.
Dr Ernie (28:08.879)
Most definitely, most definitely.
Ryan Simpson (28:10.689)
Okay, all right, so last question. I've been thinking about this one a lot as we prepared for this, I am perplexed on what you would do. I'm very interested to hear what you say. What if only one member of the couple is really engaged or wants the counseling? What happens if the other person is there, maybe not of their own free will?
Dr Ernie (28:35.653)
Yeah, so good question. It's more common than you might think. You know, the truth is one person can often change things, right? You might think one person can't make a difference, but one person can. Relationships are systems, right? When one person changes, how they show up, the whole dynamic has to change. Are you thinking one of those things where they're called mobiles or whatever that would hang? Yeah, mobiles.
Ryan Simpson (28:59.748)
yeah, like the mobiles. Yeah.
Dr Ernie (29:03.151)
You shake one piece, right? The whole thing starts to shake. Right? And that could be good, right? Like I'm shaking because I'm changing this thing. I'm changing the whole thing. Can also happen for bad, right? If one person starts to change and do terrible things, right? That can also, but it's not uncommon at all for people to come in. You know, it's super common. like one wife did recently where she came in alone for a while. She set some boundaries, started regulating herself better.
communicated more clearly. Her husband noticed the difference and then eventually he joined her. Right? It's not an employment for people to eventually they see what's working. So that is making a difference, right? People want their relationships to go well, right? They don't want them to go poorly. You have, sometimes you have people who just won't do anything, but usually have people who want good. They want good in their life. Sometimes we teach people like make an invitation, not an ultimatum.
Ryan Simpson (29:39.527)
Wow.
Ryan Simpson (29:45.501)
Yeah.
Dr Ernie (30:04.004)
I'd love you to do this counseling thing together with me, but I'll keep growing even if you're not ready to. Right, using non-statements, right, and boundaries. I feel overwhelmed and want to feel like a team. Can we do this together, right? It's an invitation, not an ultimatum. Yeah. Yeah, so that's something we say. Sometimes we say compassionate ownership, focus on what you can control, right, not what your partner won't do.
Ryan Simpson (30:04.254)
Mm.
Ryan Simpson (30:21.8)
Yeah. It's very gracious.
Dr Ernie (30:34.938)
We talk a lot about control what you can, let go of what you can't, focus on the good. And there are things that you can control. You can control these things. You can go get help. And then oftentimes if you do, it can really make a difference. Conflict and resentment don't mean that your relationship is broken. It just means you need new tools. And if one person learns some new tools, it can make a big world difference.
Oftentimes, if that person's learning new tools, the other person will either learn vicariously or they'll come join you. Like, hey, I want to see what this is about.
Ryan Simpson (31:10.652)
Yeah, that's happened to me, 100%. It's been fantastic. So big shout out to my wife there. She's the best. Great. Well, I think that's a fantastic place to wrap up today. So thank you, Dr. Ernie, for your time and all of your insight. This has been an amazing conversation.
Dr Ernie (31:17.926)
Awesome.
Dr Ernie (31:29.151)
thank you, Ryan. It's good talking to you.
Ryan Simpson (31:31.327)
Yeah, you as well. All right, so thanks for joining us on Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. If today's conversation helped you or got you thinking, we'd love it if you would share this episode, leave us a review. For more information or to connect with Dr. Ernie or anybody on his counseling team, please visit counselingcorner.net. Or for more great content from Dr. Ernie and the team, you can visit us on Facebook or Instagram. Until next time, take care of yourself and the people you love.
Thanks, Dr. Ernie. Have a good rest of your week. All right, talk to you later.
Dr Ernie (32:01.807)
You too, Ryan. Thanks.