Teen Mental Health Focus: Depression vs. Burnout
Show Notes:
In this episode of Real Life Counseling, Ryan Simpson, Dr. Ernie Reilly, LCSW, and Dr. Judi Allen, LCSW discuss the critical issue of distinguishing between teen burnout and depression. They explore the signs of depression in teenagers, the impact of burnout, and the importance of parental support. The conversation emphasizes the role of therapy in helping teens navigate their emotional challenges and highlights success stories of clients who have overcome these issues. The episode concludes with encouragement for parents to be present and supportive in their teens' lives.
If you're looking for help or support with a teenager you care about you can find helpful resources or get in touch with our team here.
Key Takeaways:
It's hard to differentiate between normal mood issues and depression in teens.
Common signs of depression include loss of interest, sadness, irritability, and withdrawal.
Burnout is chronic exhaustion from prolonged stress without recovery.
Burnout differs from stress in intensity, duration, and impact.
Parents should communicate openly and supportively with their teens.
Therapy can provide a safe space for teens to express themselves.
Empowerment and building self-esteem are crucial in therapy for teens.
Parental presence and understanding are protective factors for teens.
Avoid comparing teens to others; focus on their individual strengths.
Recognizing warning signs early can lead to better outcomes.
Visit the show on Apple Podcasts
Visit the show on Spotify
Transcript:
Disclaimer
Hey everybody, Ryan here and before we jump into this week's episode I wanted to take a second to let you know that we'll be discussing a story about one of our guest's clients during our conversation this week. However all identifying details like age, gender, org associations, and even schools have been altered or modified to protect and preserve our client confidentiality agreements. So, with that VERY IMPORTANT disclaimer being said, let's get into the show.
Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here with Dr. Ernie, founder of The Counseling Corner. And today we're talking about an issue many parents wrestle with. How do you know if your teenager is just burned out from school and life, or if they're struggling with depression? To help us unpack this, we're actually joined today by a special guest, Dr. Judi Allen, a licensed clinical social worker here at The Counseling Corner as well. Judi, how are doing today?
Dr. Judi (09:24.328)
I'm doing good. Thank you for having me today. It's great.
Ryan Simpson (09:27.0)
Absolutely, we're so excited you're here. Dr. Ernie, you doing okay?
Ernie Reilly (09:30.156)
I'm doing great. Great. Thanks, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (09:31.418)
Great. Yeah. All right. I want to read Dr. Judi's formal introduction because it is quite robust and I want to make sure people know who they're talking to. Dr. Judi Allen is the clinical director here at the counseling corner. She's a licensed clinical social worker with more than 20 years of experience helping children, teens, adults, and families across Central Florida. She recently earned her doctorate in social work from the University of Tennessee, Go Vols, and her bachelor's and master's degrees from the University of Central Florida.
Dr. Judi is certified in accelerated resolution therapy and draws on approaches like CVT and strength-based counseling to help clients grow and heal. Beyond her clinical work with us, she's trained and supervised future therapists as a professor at UCF. Go Knights. And today she leads our team of counselors here at the Counseling Corner. We're so excited to have her as she shares her expertise, especially towards teens, who she has a unique passion for. Is that right, Dr. Judi?
Dr. Judi (10:29.78)
Yeah, I've been working with them for many years since the beginning of my career, so...
Ryan Simpson (10:34.596)
Wonderful. Well, that's why you're here. So let's jump right in if that's okay. I have my first question for you actually, so we'll stick with you. What are the most common signs of depression in teens? And how can parents tell the difference between the normal ups and downs of teenagerhood? How can they tell when it's something more serious like clinical depression?
Dr. Judi (10:57.32)
Right, that's a great, that's very important question because it is hard to differentiate between a normal mood issue with teens and depression. So as for the depression within any age group actually, some of the same symptoms happen, but it's beyond an individual's normal behaviors basically. Sorry, I'm using your quotes.
These can be emotional, behavioral, cognitive, impersonal or social changes too in their lives. So a person might see, if somebody has depression, they might see loss of interest in things that they normally would enjoy. Maybe a lot of sadness, tearfulness, irritability, anger is often there. Low self-esteem, feeling of worthlessness, sometimes just a general withdrawal from people or from life in general.
they have, they might be decline in their regular functioning patterns, whatever that would be in their lives. So another thing that changes too is more or less sleep and fatigue that happens with depression. A lot of times there's changes in eating habits, low energy. The other thing that's also seen a lot in depression across the board is some somatic complaints.
like headaches and nausea, even just kind of vague or non-specific physical health issues or complaints. let me go on to say what's different in teenagers, though, is that that anger or irritability becomes a little bit more prevalent, I would say, like a short temper, not getting along with people at home, their friends, whatever.
Ryan Simpson (12:40.422)
Hmm.
Dr. Judi (12:45.182)
They start losing interest and not go to the activities that they used to enjoy. Like they're not going to the football games or doing school activities. Maybe even stop playing their video games that they might normally be used to. Maybe they stop talking to friends. Different.
Ryan Simpson (12:58.02)
Okay.
Dr. Judi (13:02.496)
There's, they might, the one thing that too can be a problem for teens is that they might start seeking attention elsewhere, like going on online dating apps or looking for some other forms of attention and they dive into that. So that's something that's important for parents to be aware of and looking at social media and the internet searches for kids and stuff like that. So.
As I said before when I was kind of describing depression for a lot of people is that the sleep patterns change So it's hard to discern that and differentiate that with teenagers because teenagers sleep patterns are so erratic A lot of times they're sleeping at different points of the day They're you know longer sleep hours or less sleep because they're staying up so late on their iPads or whatever
Ryan Simpson (13:38.722)
yeah, yep.
Ryan Simpson (13:53.094)
Mmm.
Dr. Judi (13:53.331)
So that's one thing to pay attention to. And I know it's sometimes hard to differentiate what's problematic, sleep health, and which is normal sleep health, I know. So one of the things that I do want to point out too is that hygiene changes also can happen. teenagers who are usually very self-centered and very much aware of what they look like and what they smell like and how their hair looks or their makeup, if it's a female, you know,
that in all honesty, sometimes their hygiene changes drastically. Like they stop bathing and stop showering and stop taking care of themselves in that way, or stop caring about what they look like in public places. And then I think with kids or teenagers, I should say, the biggest red flag that we really have to pay attention to is if the youngsters are starting to have a preoccupation with death and dying.
If they start showing some self-harm behaviors, cutting or headbanging or just injuries to themselves. If they start expressing suicidal thoughts. And I differentiate between both active and passive suicidal thinking. Active is I have a plan, this is when, and this is when I intend to die. And this is how I'm gonna do it.
That's the active plan or a passive plan might be more like, I wish I was dead or I wish I wasn't part of this family anymore. I don't want to be here anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. Those are teeter tottering on suicidal thoughts, but very passive in nature. So those are the things that are those are the biggest red flags to look for.
Ryan Simpson (15:36.198)
Okay.
Yeah, those sound like obvious strong red flags to be keeping an eye out. I want to shift my next question over to you, Dr. Ernie, about burnout. So that was a really great breakdown of depression and what to be on the lookout for. So thank you, Dr. Judi. But Dr. Ernie, what does burnout in teens look like? Because I imagine a lot of people would think it kind of looks like the list that Dr. Judi just went down.
All that just sounds like a lot of stress and tiredness. So like what is burnout and how is it different from being just stressed or tired?
Ernie Reilly (16:19.284)
Okay, great question, Ryan. Those three things, burnout, stress, tired, they're oftentimes lumped together, but they actually differ in intensity, duration, and impact. Ryan, we all know that stress is the body and mind's natural response to demands or challenges or pressure. Its duration is usually short-term, tied to a specific event, let's say an exam or a competition or a project or a deadline.
or something like that. And then depending on our capacity, the impact can be more motivating in the proper doses, like good stress, right? Or it can be overwhelming, right? It can be draining if it's constant or too much. We need a level of good stress to develop grit, resilience, resiliency, capacity, know, fortitude, right? It's through challenges or difficulties and a stress level.
that need that stress, we need those challenges that we can be forged into something stronger, that we get stronger. You can kind of think of stress as a workout or perhaps maybe even a better way of saying that is like they're the weights in the workout, right? The right amount of weight, for the right amount of time and the right duration and you'll do great. Yeah, you'll get stronger, right? Too much weight for too long and you're likely to have a problem.
On the other hand, burnout is more of a chronic exhaustion caused by prolonged stress without enough recovery. We all need healthy rhythms of rest and recovery. We need to build those into our lives. If you don't have that, burnout probably is eventually coming. Burnout comes from long term, maybe months or even years of sustained pressure.
Ryan Simpson (18:04.219)
Yeah.
Ernie Reilly (18:10.926)
And then the impact is kind of developing a form of like cynicism, like I don't care about this anymore. Then you got reduced performance, withdraw from the activity and a loss of joy in that area. It's important that you realize that burnout is more specific to an area. An example might be a teen athlete who trains daily, studies late, competes every weekend, eventually stops caring about the sport, feels exhausted all the time and dreads practice even
after resting. So burnout is even after you've rested, you're still like, I just don't want to do this. I'm done with this. I'm so exhausted from this. I think of both of my sons are athletes. So one son is a wrestler and those practices can be really intense and one's a gymnast and those practices can be really intense and they both train intensely all year.
But I'll tell you that they often perform a whole lot better after they've intentionally taken a healthy, good break. So kind of to summarize that, would say stress is like pressure. It could be good or bad. In the right amounts, like weights, the right amount, can help you be stronger. It's pressure, but you still have fuel.
Ryan Simpson (19:12.432)
Mmm.
Ernie Reilly (19:27.118)
Tired is just basically a low battery. Tired can be good. If you worked really hard all day, you come home and you're like, I'm good and tired. I feel good, but I'm tired. Good night's sleep though usually helps us recharge. Burnout is like having a dead battery. Even after rest, the motivation and the energy just don't come back right away. You feel drained and detached. I'd say those are kind of the differences in burnout, tiredness, and stress.
Ryan Simpson (19:30.224)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (19:49.519)
Okay.
Ryan Simpson (19:55.51)
Okay, that makes sense. Thank you for that breakdown That was very helpful. I do notice some similarities though Between so Dr. Judi are there different causes for each of these? Like is there a different cause maybe for burnout or different cause for depression? That's very clear. How do we how do we maybe anticipate even?
Dr. Judi (20:18.216)
Yeah, that's that can be. Thank you, Ryan. I think it be a tricky question. I think that is very individually and situate situationally specific to the person and what's going on in their lives to understand the difference between potential burnout or depression. So kind of as Dr. Ernie said before, burnout is that chronic exhaustion, the dead battery that he spoke about.
the lack of motivation, just a general withdrawal, which results in some of those cynical feelings that he spoke or cynical ideas that he spoke about, sometimes turning into very self-defeating thoughts and ideas. So I think some of the things to understand the differences is a lot of times the causes of burnout is from external pressures that might then become internalized to the person. So.
That might be pressures from school, academically, their teachers, from their family, or internally within themselves, this need for excellence or this need for perfection. Overload can definitely be teetering into the burnout phases because that might be overload with extracurricular activities such as job or school activity, sports, different things like that, bands, social clubs, whatever it is.
The teen themselves, they're still learning life and they're still learning to balance and they're having a hard time with balancing all these extracurricular activities with all the things that they're responsible for too. So like that can lead to easy burnout right there. Family pressure can create burnout too. Expectations at home, the chores, feeling trapped with a bunch of the responsibilities. I've known some
some teenagers and older teens that have had to have responsibilities for their younger siblings. And that can add to or create the burnout. So when they're unable to take any timeouts or breaks, like Dr. Ernie said before, having intentional recovery periods, they will frequently enter into burnout. I know burnout is right now technology, social media. That's a big thing for our teens, you know. So
Dr. Judi (22:39.806)
Sometimes there's just pressure on social media in general, like to respond or message others or make sure you like someone's post and stuff like that. So all those performance measures, I would say that are online, just having to meet expectations even in a peer sense or just on their social media peer sense. So those are things that I see for burnout really.
Ryan Simpson (23:03.056)
Yeah.
That makes sense. I have noticed, and this is neither here nor there, but I do wonder if we're getting to a societal level of burnout with technology. like, we're almost all getting to the point where we need a break. from, we need to get back into the woods and relax for a second before we open up Twitter one more time. Or X, should say. Yes, touch grass. I have heard that so over the last few years. Okay.
Dr. Judi (23:26.282)
Touch grass.
Dr. Judi (23:30.33)
grass
Ryan Simpson (23:35.79)
Sorry for the rabbit trail. I'm wondering if somebody were to come into the office though, or you were to meet somebody who has these chronic tired or just cannot recharge, disinterest, maybe some cynicism, somebody comes into the office looking for some help with these things, what are you as therapist, I'll start with you Dr. Ernie, looking for to point one way or the other?
Dr. Judi (23:38.088)
That's okay.
Ryan Simpson (24:03.379)
of, this may be depression or this is probably burnout. What are you looking for?
Ernie Reilly (24:10.286)
Sure, Ryan. I would say burnout.
Well, first of all, we probably want to look at any of that. So if someone's burned, out, that's something we want to address. And depression is certainly something we want to address. But to kind of distinguish the differences, burnout is maybe more like a car that's run out of gas, you know, with proper refueling, right, which we would look at like rest, brakes, balance, right. You get back on the road. While depression, it's more like the engine itself is just shot, right. It's just broken. It's just not working.
Ryan Simpson (24:42.598)
Mm.
Ernie Reilly (24:44.462)
The tank can be filled, the battery can be charged, but it's not going anywhere. You feel flat, empty, stuck, no matter what. So that's more like with depression. Depression is also more...
Pervasive, right? You're going to see things more loss and pleasure, right? Not just in one particular area. Like if a wrestler gets burnt out in wrestling, he's not burnt out in swimming, right? Or burnt out in talking to his friends. He's burnt out in wrestling, right? With depression, you're going to see loss of pleasure kind of across the board. Much more pervasive, sadness, hopelessness, overall more negative self-worth type struggles. Social withdrawal, you'll see
Ryan Simpson (25:11.27)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (25:28.484)
that as Dr. Judi mentioned, loss of appetite, sleep issues, maybe even some suicidal thoughts or plans. Burnout, you know you're tired of a specific thing while depression is much more across the board pervasive. Another way to look at that is a burnout is kind of like, imagine like the power goes off in just your kitchen, right in your house, right? Just one room of the house loses power.
Ryan Simpson (25:45.062)
so it's almost more focused.
Ernie Reilly (25:57.346)
That's still a pain, right? That's still a problem. But if the power is off in the whole house, that's a bigger issue. So burnout is more like one of the rooms the power has gone out. Depression is more like the whole house losing power. Every room's dark, not just one. Doesn't matter where you go or what you try. The lights just don't turn back on. That's the heaviness and pervasiveness of...
depression. Another thought is burnout is kind like your phone with no charge. Depression is like your phone's broken. Right? You if you ever had your phone turn into just a big brick, right? You know, it just stops working entirely and just nothing will happen. That's more like depression and it's a bigger, bigger deal.
Dr. Judi (26:31.328)
you
Dr. Judi (26:40.256)
you
Ryan Simpson (26:42.062)
Okay, that makes sense. So, Dr. Judi, you, can you maybe tell us about an example of a time you had to parse through this and what you were looking for and what was manifesting as far as a burnout versus depression conversation with a client?
Dr. Judi (26:57.192)
Yeah, definitely. So as we've been talking about this and thinking about a client that I have that I've been seeing her for a couple of years, she's a teenager and she's 16 years old. There's a lot of pressure from her mother to go into the medical field. That's like a necessity for her to do that. So with that came the pressure for AP courses, the pressure for all the advanced work in school that she could do.
And then she was pressured to even like go into the they have a like a future medical professionals group for teenagers at their school. She was pressured to do dual enrollment. She was pressured. She so she ended up gaining a lot of this internal this external pressure that then got internalized in her, like I had said before. And she was going along with it for some for some time with.
But then there was this just abrupt shutdown with her. And this happens like the last school year was at the end of the school year, her grades declined significantly. She quit the Young Professionals Club.
She started hanging out with the bad crowd. Sorry with my air quotes, but then she started getting involved in different things and doing, you making bad choices and everything just started. She started skipping classes, leaving school without permission because she had her own vehicle. She just started going downhill quickly.
This was a kind of a sign of both burnout and depression. It was the burnout because it was a lot of these external pressures that got internalized. But then it built up so much that we were getting close to all the lights being out in her house and all of the things shutting down for her and not being able to function so much. So like we worked together for a while. did a lot of
Dr. Judi (28:58.756)
work to do some family therapy to bring her mom on board, trying to help them improve some communication. And I helped her, the client specifically, improve her own emotional management, emotional intelligence, being able to help her to communicate better about her feelings and manage her feelings better. I also helped the mom to actually receive the communication in an appropriate way too, because she wasn't
often come, you know, welcoming to hear her daughter's opinions and ideas. So I helped the mom to like readjust that. But I think, I mean, the biggest thing over, like I said, we've been working together for some time is that we focus so much on healthy coping skills, giving her some new tools, new skills, new strategies that she can do independently and outside of her family. Yeah. So.
Ryan Simpson (29:51.376)
So if I'm a parent and I feel like I'm seeing my teen start to show some of these signs that we've been talking about, what's the best first step that I should take as a parent with a teen?
Dr. Judi (30:10.12)
Yeah, I can take that too. Like first step, talk to your teen, have a relationship with your teen, understand your teen. Do not confront them or lecture them or belittle or even demean them about their feelings or what's going on with them. So ask your teen what they need. They're the experts in themselves. So ask them what they need and ask what you can do. Humble yourselves. Ask what you can do to help them.
So I think it's important to just be a partner with your team and really, and maybe encourage them to seek counseling. Some schools where the kids are going to school, they offer the free counseling right there, you know, on, on site, or they can come to mental health providers like us at the counseling corner and come bring their teenager in to really, to be evaluated or to just get some of the services.
The biggest thing I can say and I can't repeat loud enough is to don't shame your team for having feelings and having anxiety or depression or even being in a state of burnout. And really kind of work on building resilience because this is a teenager that's still learning, that's still figuring out life and help them to overcome their stuff and build resilience. So just kind of re...
Ryan Simpson (31:12.39)
Hmm.
Dr. Judi (31:33.235)
Reflecting back about the burnout that we both have spoke about before, I would say stop putting pressure on your kids. Stop filling up their schedule with tons of activities to keep them busy. Stop making them have so many expectations and listen to them. And you will see and you will know the signs of burnout and when it's teeter tottering into depressive tendencies.
Ernie Reilly (32:00.95)
Yeah, that's so true, Judi. How we approach kids, right? How we approach this, Ryan, can make such a big difference. Right? As parents, as we as parents, if we approach things with balance, right? With calmness, with listening, right? We have two ears to listen twice as much as we talk.
we try to have really healthy, supportive means of communication, keep those things open, keep our eyes, our ears, and our parental sort of awake and paying attention. And then if we're willing to see issues and then kindly and in a helpful way and a supportive way, be there. Teenagers are just starting to develop coping skills and learning how to deal with life. And here we should have a whole
bunch more and sometimes we allow their stress to stress us out.
Instead, we can breathe, if we can calm down and then we can be supportive and loving and try to be an asset. The main reason kids don't share with their parents is that they're afraid their parents are going to judge them, make them feel bad, they're going to embarrass them, or they're not actually going to listen or do anything, or almost worse, they're going to do way too much and they're going to intervene and talk to their teacher.
Dr. Judi (33:00.288)
you
Dr. Judi (33:13.684)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (33:27.542)
and do all this sort of stuff and also calm, listen, and take it slowly and try to figure out what's the best route and talk to them. Teens have a lot of good ideas. Many parents just don't listen and they talk over their teen, right? And if they really listen and then they're willing to engage with them in a healthy way, open communication can really make a huge difference.
Dr. Judi (33:40.031)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (33:53.776)
This is so funny, these conversations are always so convicting for me, because I'm a parent of a three-year-old, and we are walking into the three-nager, and I don't have teens. Can't relate. But what you're talking about, as far as stay calm, if you stay calm, you can help them communicate what they're actually feeling and thinking, because sometimes I feel like maybe me as a teen, I have the emotional capacity of a three-year-old to communicate what I was feeling.
Dr. Judi (34:01.13)
Go.
Ryan Simpson (34:22.502)
If I'm willing to stay patient and work through those big feelings, it's so much better. And so I'm like, man, I've got to get that down now so that when I do eventually she becomes a team, hopefully we'll have laid a foundation. But thank you for all the good reminders every week.
Ernie Reilly (34:37.212)
And Ryan, there is like a...
Yeah, with two or three year olds, right, that's terrible twos and the teenage years do share some things in common. It is a time of differentiating, right, separating, right. A young child is learning to say no and learning that they have their own will, right, and their own opinions and their own thoughts, right. And they're still really, really developing coping skills, right. Because they've got very minimal ones and communication skills. And teenagers are developing those in a more advanced way.
Dr. Judi (34:46.121)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (34:55.75)
I know.
Ernie Reilly (35:09.776)
but they're also going through that time of separating and differentiating and beginning to develop into their own personhood. So it is pretty similar in many ways.
Ryan Simpson (35:19.59)
That makes me feel a little better, I guess. There's a lot of physical brain rewiring happening during that phase too, right? Like, as a teen, your brain almost unwinds and then rewires itself. I've heard that.
Dr. Judi (35:20.148)
Yeah.
Dr. Judi (35:32.074)
Well, the brain is still developing. In the teenage years, there's so much brain development that's happening at the same point. And, you know, some of it might be rewiring, some of it being all new wires and circuitry too.
Ernie Reilly (35:32.088)
Yes, sir.
Ryan Simpson (35:48.546)
Mm-hmm. Now that makes sense. So as parents are walking through that season, right, with their teens, what are some common mistakes you see them make even when they're just trying to help?
Ernie Reilly (35:51.512)
Yeah.
Ernie Reilly (36:02.134)
Yeah, so I can jump in on that. One of the things is minimizing or dismissing, right? Saying things like, you're just tired, or everyone feels stressed, or you'll get over it. This can often make a teen feel unheard or weak if they're struggling, right? It may sometimes be that they're just tired, and that's great. But you want to let them know, I see you. I hear you, right? A better approach is, I can see this feels really heavy for you.
Right? Or, let's figure out this together. Right? Those are better responses than, know, you're just tired or everyone feels stressed. Right? You'll get over it. It's no big deal.
Some other mistakes are maybe over focusing on performance. Judi was mentioning that earlier. Some parents get really caught up in this where it's great to encourage your kids and want them to do well and do the best that they can do. But when you get over focused on that performance, a kid can believe begin to believe that what's valuable about them is their performance. Can't tell you how many kids I ask, you know, hey, what's awesome about you? What's you know, what's valuable about what?
you, what makes you lovable? And they'll say, I'm really good at golf, or I'm really good at such and such. Right? And it's because that's what they've heard. That's what they're all that they're good at. Right? So another thing is comparing them, right? Comparing them with other kids or siblings, you know, try really hard not to do that. That's really can be pretty, pretty brutal to a kid to hear, especially to hear over and over again, or overloading them with advice.
Dr. Judi (37:31.754)
from.
Ernie Reilly (37:43.504)
or talking over or trying to fix everything.
I always ask my teens, you know, how much they want my help, right? Would you like some help with that? Do you need some help with that? I usually say, where are you at with this? Are you the oak tree, right? Are you the, you know, the plant, right? Plants need like little borders and such to help, you know, like little borders so the lawnmower doesn't run into them. You run a lawnmower into an oak tree and that lawnmower is getting damaged, right? You know, so sometimes they're really solid on something. Sometimes they need more help.
Ryan Simpson (38:10.65)
Yeah.
Ernie Reilly (38:20.512)
Ignoring warning signs is, know, obviously we've listed a bunch of warning signs. So pay attention, try to keep your ears open and your eyes open and your parental gut in check, right, and awake. And then maybe another thing that a lot of parents do is they make it about them. So when you make it about you, like for example, you're stressing me out, right? If their depression is stressing you out,
It's not about you, right? It's about being there for them, right? It's so easy to do. I'm not trying to judge a parent for doing it. It's really easy to do because that's where you're at at that moment. But just be careful not to make it about you. Try to be there for your child and listen to them.
Dr. Judi (39:09.63)
Yeah, I can add something on that too. Just real quick, another mistake that I will see what some parents do is treating their teenagers just like they're little adults. We as we just talked about, the rewiring or the new circuitry that's happening in the brains, their brains are still developing. And so as adults or as parents, we might expect them to have abstract thinking or having excellent emotional reasoning skills or
Ernie Reilly (39:09.87)
Okay.
Dr. Judi (39:38.933)
just expecting them to be able to be good problem solvers in general. Like those are all skills that are more advanced level that are in like later teens, early twenties to do. So when we're talking to a 14, 15 year old and expecting them to have all these skills and abilities, we forget as adults or as parents that their brains are still developing. They're still in this limbo between childhood and adulthood while brain development is
very active.
Ryan Simpson (40:10.01)
Yeah, that makes sense. All right, so this is all really helpful information as a parent navigating it, but now I'd love to hear what role, and we'll stick with you Dr. Judi, what role does therapy play in this? So when it's time for a counselor to get involved, how would you approach this at the counselor?
Ernie Reilly (40:11.608)
Yeah, so true.
Dr. Judi (40:32.446)
Right, okay. So as I said before, I love working with teens. I just really love them and I think they're amazing beings. I do love those little humans or younger humans, I should say. So my favorite thing is just because of how much tremendous growth I will always see with them. But as with any client and very, important with teens is to build a very strong therapeutic relationship with them.
Helping them understand the sense of trust and safety in my office when they're working with me. So all therapeutic services have to abide by HIPAA laws and rules with confidentiality and not making sure that we're keeping information private. But I take that a step further and I actually speak about this with the parent in front of the teen both.
to ask them to respect the privacy of their teen so that they may have things they want to talk about with me that they wouldn't normally talk about with their parents or feel so inclined to speak about with their parent maybe more comfortable with me. So I always assure parents if there's critical issues, you will be made aware and I will bring you in and give you updates as the therapeutic process goes on. But I think it's important gaining that rapport right away.
with the teen and you're gonna you're gonna go far with them. So I think So it all depends on the situation and the emotional state might use some cognitive behavioral therapy to help reshape some thoughts and behaviors of a teenager. There's a bunch of different modalities to use acceptance and commitment therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, mindfulness.
I do a lot of self-esteem work with kids that are dealing with burnout and depression. Like we've kind of alluded to that as we both have spoken about it. Definitely family therapy is an important part. And then I always, I focus a great deal on the big three that I call the sleep health, physical activity, and a healthy diet. Those three things can be like the cure all for all mental health and emotional health challenges. So,
Ryan Simpson (42:23.354)
Mm.
Dr. Judi (42:45.564)
I really get them to buy into that and focus on that, even as teenagers, you know? But I think in all of my strategies, I can speak for myself and say I focus on a space of empowerment and really building individual strengths with the teen and helping them to do feel-good about themselves.
Ernie Reilly (43:09.548)
Yeah, that's so true, Dr. Judi. And you know, Ryan, during these years, these are some of the really hard years for kids. So you're getting to a place where you've got two things going on. About the teenage years, if you've had unhealthy patterns in place, they're pretty ingrained by the teenage years, right? So a lot of times we see those unhealthy patterns really start to manifest right around the teenage years, right? In addition, as we were talking before,
these are the years when kids begin to separate, right, and differentiate themselves from their parents, right, from their family. And so if you're trying to rebuild a relationship during that time with your teenager, that's especially hard because you've got one, you've got these ingrained patterns that have been now in place for a long time. In addition, you've got a time when the child is supposed to, and in a healthy way, start to separate from the parent. And that's when we're trying to get in there.
as parents and repair some stuff, that can be hard. So having someone who can step in as almost a surrogate sort of listener and talker, right, a therapist or somebody like that, who can sit in there like the Dr. Judi was talking about before, they may tell us something that they wouldn't tell the parent because they're naturally at a place where they're separating from their parent, where they're not necessarily separating from their counselor, from their therapist.
Ryan Simpson (44:39.302)
Sure.
Ernie Reilly (44:39.314)
Right there. Counseling therapist is their ally, right there. You know, they feel connected with them, whereas their parent is somebody they're naturally separating from. So having someone who can step in and do that really can make a difference in getting some family help and some parenting help and some help for your teenager. And that's all, you know, come see Dr. Judi or come see myself or or any of our great teen and family therapists at the counseling corner or finding someone good that can help you in those
Dr. Judi (44:49.344)
you
Ernie Reilly (45:09.24)
areas that can really make a big difference.
Ryan Simpson (45:12.838)
That sounds very hopeful and like a great way to approach a lot of this with these clients. So could you maybe share some success stories or at least one success story that of a client that you've walked through with this and done some of this work?
Dr. Judi (45:29.704)
I got one. I'm going to kind of repeat what I was talking about earlier with that 16 year old was getting all that pressure from her mother and pressure academically and all of that. Like I had said before, I've been working with her for a couple of years, so this is a longer term case. But what happened with her is she was able to kind of begin to forge her own path.
and kind of pull away from the expectations and the pressures of her mother. And I think through the family therapy we did, and I helped the mom to hear her differently and to respond differently to her. She found her own path. So she decided to kind of sort of stay in the medical field. And she actually, I'm so proud of her. She just got accepted too. And she began attending University of Florida School of Veterinary Medicine this year.
Ryan Simpson (46:26.47)
Good for her. Wow.
Ernie Reilly (46:26.795)
Yay!
Dr. Judi (46:27.782)
medical fields, but with animals. And that is a big accomplishment because that's a huge, that's a big school to get into. So we did a lot of work together to help her. But I think the biggest thing, like I had said before, the empowerment for helping her find her strengths, building her self-esteem, those were all the things that really helped her to succeed, basically.
Ryan Simpson (46:31.174)
still count.
Ryan Simpson (46:35.844)
Yeah. Wow.
Ryan Simpson (46:51.462)
That's great. So if, I'd love to end on a high note, and if I'm a parent who's listening and maybe a little worried right now, what's one piece of encouragement that you might give me?
Dr. Judi (46:58.409)
you
Ernie Reilly (47:07.096)
Sure, sure. All right. The one thing I would say is the very fact that you're listening to this podcast, the very fact that you're noticing and caring, right, is already one of the most powerful protective factors that your team has. Just the fact that you're interested and you care and you want to know and you want to help. So first of all, right there, that's super powerful, protected, right? Burnout and depression feel much heavier.
when a team believes they're alone. That can make a huge difference. They feel like they're alone or they feel like they're not alone.
Ryan Simpson (47:39.942)
Hmm.
Ernie Reilly (47:44.834)
Your steady presence matters more than perfect answers, right? know, parents oftentimes think, if I don't have the perfect answer, I should just not say anything or I shouldn't try. No, look up answers, right? Try your best, right? Your steady presence matters more than the perfect answer. Listening with love is more often healing than any advice that you're going to have. Just sitting with someone and loving them and caring, that is cathartic.
healing. Remembering that your child's worth isn't in their performance and nor is yours. Right? So keeping that in mind for both you and your child. So I would say be strong enough to get help and even when you feel unsure, showing up for your teenager sends the message they're not alone and I'd say know that you're not alone either. There's people out there that'll walk alongside you. Sound good?
Ryan Simpson (48:23.174)
Hmm.
Ryan Simpson (48:44.646)
I love that. Dr. Judi, do you want to add anything in?
Dr. Judi (48:44.84)
Yeah, those are those are Yeah, I do because those are beautiful words. Those are strong words, Dr. Ernie. I appreciate hearing that too. I just want to add in saying that as client as because clients, excuse me as parents, because I'm one of all three of us are parents. We have the hardest job in the world, honestly, and it is and I think everybody would agree it's exhausting. It doesn't matter what age your children are.
Ernie Reilly (49:02.253)
Right.
Dr. Judi (49:10.592)
But I will say in the teenage years, gets to be a different type of exhausting than the three-year-olds. But there's no handbook or perfect way to be a parent. And most of it is on the job training. It doesn't matter how many kids you have. Each kid is going to be very different. Even like Dr. Ernie said with the two sons, the way he's parenting each of them is not going to be the same. They're going to be very unique and different. So you don't have to have all the answers.
Ernie Reilly (49:16.811)
No doubt.
Dr. Judi (49:39.092)
You don't have to, but you can go find professionals like us that can help you to find some answers or give some advice towards those answers. So I will agree with something he said. I just want to make sure you're always doing everything as parents with love, because that's what your teen needs.
Ryan Simpson (49:56.994)
Amen. Well, thank you, Dr. Judi. Thank you, Dr. Ernie, so much for all this great wisdom this week.
Ernie Reilly (49:57.218)
most definitely.
Dr. Judi (50:06.528)
Thank you, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (50:06.638)
I do want to take a minute just to talk to our listeners real quick to say that if you are concerned about your team, the Counseling Corner team is here to help. So if you're looking for or even just have some questions, visit counselingcorner.net. You'll find our phone number and all of our contact information. You can get in touch with our team. They'll field your questions and you can talk about what it might look like to get some help. And I would also encourage don't
Ernie Reilly (50:06.722)
You're welcome. Thank you, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (50:33.99)
I think Dr. Ernie and Dr. Judi would agree with this until some of these things feel overwhelming. Reaching out early and taking small steps can make a big difference as your teens walk this path of becoming their own person. But I think we're going to wrap it up there today. Thank you for listening to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by the Counseling Corner. If today's conversation helped you, share it with a parent or someone else who might be thinking of some of the same questions. We are here to help our community.
If you want more information or want to connect with our team, I said, go to counselingcorner.net or you can follow us on Facebook or Instagram or watch us on YouTube. Until next time, take care of yourself and the people you love. Thank you guys. Talk to you soon.
Dr. Judi (51:16.32)
Thank you.
Ernie Reilly (51:16.878)
Thank you, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (51:18.052)
Yep, have a good week.