When Little Hearts Feel Big Feelings — Understanding Child & Play Therapy
Show Notes:
In this episode of Real Life Counseling, host Ryan Simpson engages with child therapists Amanda Riendeau, LMHC and Andreina Bello, LMHC along with Dr. Ernie Reilly, LCSW, to explore the complexities of children's emotions and the role of play therapy in helping children navigate their feelings. The conversation covers the importance of co-regulation between parents and children, what a play therapy session looks like, and how parents can support their child's emotional development. The therapists share success stories and emphasize that seeking help is a smart choice for families facing challenges.
Takeaways:
Children's emotions can be overwhelming for both kids and parents.
Play therapy allows children to express their feelings through play.
Co-regulation is essential for helping children manage their emotions.
Parents should model calm behavior during their child's meltdowns.
Therapy is a safe space for children to communicate and learn.
Progress in therapy can be seen through improved emotional vocabulary.
It's normal for children to have big feelings; it's part of development.
Parents should look for signs that their child may need therapy.
Play therapy can help children build resilience and emotional regulation skills.
Seeking help is a proactive step, not a sign of failure.
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Transcript
Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by the Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here with Dr. Ernie, licensed clinical social worker and founder of the Counseling Corner. Today we're diving into one of the most common struggles families face when a child's emotions feel just too big to handle. We'll unpack why kids can't just calm down, how play therapy works, and what parents can do to support emotional regulation at home. Joining us today are two of our incredible child and play therapists, Amanda Riendeau and Andreina Bello.
who work every day helping kids and families in Orlando and across central Florida. Together, we'll explore what happens inside the playroom, how children learn to manage emotions through connection, and why healing often starts with play. So let's jump in. I'd love to just have Amanda and Andreina, could you just introduce yourself? Tell us your name, your role at the counseling corner, and one thing you love most about working with children in play therapy.
Amanda Riendeau (06:14.556)
So my name is Amanda Riendeau. I'm a licensed clinical social worker with Counseling Corner. I come into the space with three state licenses and I've been in the field for about 10 years or so. Currently, I work with children, teens, young adults, some families and adults as well, but mostly focusing on the younger age groups. And I specialize in
mood, behaviors, and especially those things and symptoms related to ADHD.
Andreina Bello (06:51.773)
Yes, and I am Andreina Bello and I've been working at the counseling corner.
especially with children and families and focusing on behavioral difficulties and emotional dysregulation. I've been doing this. I'm a licensed mental health counselor, by the way, and I've been in the field for 13 years approximately. Before then, I worked with the homeless population of central Florida.
Yes, and I work with kids too in the family center and I also did a lot of play therapy then.
Yes, one of the things that I really enjoy working or doing play therapy is seeing how children start learning the emotional vocabulary and how to, and when they start gaining confidence as we build rapport and learn how to self-regulate as we go.
Ryan Simpson (07:54.695)
Hmm.
Andreina Bello (08:03.825)
as we work together.
Ryan Simpson (08:06.193)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Ernie Reilly (08:07.266)
Definitely. Ryan, know, one of the things that is interesting, the one it's great to work with these two awesome play therapists and they just do such a wonderful job with the kids and such. But we also built the counseling corner with play therapy in mind. it wasn't just like some practices will end up just adding a play therapist, but we actually built it from the get go for 30 years we've been
since 1998, so look, almost 30 years, we've been doing play therapy. in fact, the association, the local association for play therapy started actually in my office. We just had all play therapists that just wanted to get together and staff cases with me and staff cases together and such. And then we, that eventually developed a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger, was moved out of my office and it became the...
the local chapter of the Association of Play Therapy. So play therapy has always been an essential part of the counseling corner.
Ryan Simpson (09:14.001)
Yeah, okay. So this is this is the experts of the experts team. These are the people that we need to talk to if we want to learn about this. Okay, well, I'm personally, I'm really excited about this conversation. When when we brought this topic up, I was excited. So I have a two year old about to be three. I have a one year old and I have another one on the way. So I'm very much in the thick of big feelings. And literally last night,
Ernie Reilly (09:21.891)
Yes, sir.
Ryan Simpson (09:43.079)
there was a meltdown, I'm not sure I handled it right. So I am awful that we can leave this conversation with me having maybe learned some some new tactics and a little bit more about my own daughter, who's peacefully and gratefully sleeping in the room next door. So let's jump in with the first question. And, Amanda, we'll start with you. But I want to hear from everybody. Why do kids have such
big feelings, right? Why are meltdowns a thing for kids?
Amanda Riendeau (10:17.498)
Hmm, it's kind of a loaded question, isn't it? When we think about kids being such little people and then to have these big feelings. And is it so much that kiddos have big feelings or are their little bodies just not big enough for those feelings? Right, because as adults, we have very big feelings too. I think what makes it more challenging is sometimes as a parent,
we can forget what it's like to be a kid, to not be able to fully understand where we are at maybe four or five and understanding how A and B will see, right? And so keeping that idea, we have to really kind of focus on where do our big feelings come from and how do we learn how to deal with them in the first place.
as we're growing. So I always use like an example for parents of, and I think Ernie might call it something different, but I call it the caveman brain. And our caveman brain is this little guy right here. So we'll use the hand. And so your thumb is the caveman part of your brain. That's the first part that's developed, right? And that, when we're thinking about a caveman, is
the part of our brain that learns what's going on around us and is supposed to keep us safe. So this is our little safety space, right? If this is coming into play, safety might be at risk. And then as we're developing and getting older and maturing and learning some of these other skills, all these other parts of our brain start to develop and keep our caveman in check, right? So if your fingers are overlapping your caveman part of your brain,
Ryan Simpson (12:07.463)
you
Amanda Riendeau (12:09.466)
It's now fully developed and keeping that caveman in check. But sometimes when things happen, whether safety is at risk because of something emotionally painful or challenging or difficult comes up or physical safety comes into play, we flip that lid of all these protective factors and outruns our caveman to keep us safe. And so our kiddos are running on their caveman brains.
until the rest of those parts of their brains develop. And so we got to kind of think in those moments, it's because they're not feeling safe. Their body and their brain is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to us as adults.
Andreina Bello (12:55.347)
Yeah, and to piggyback on what Amanda said, the kid's brain, as we develop the human brain, the logical portion when you're a kid, it's not fully developed yet. So the emotional part of the brain is the one that develops first.
Ernie Reilly (12:55.586)
Definitely.
Andreina Bello (13:16.337)
And that's why you have the children having big, big emotions without being able to verbalize and even know how to deal with those big feelings. So that's why it's important to understand that that's not defiance when your child, even when the child says, no, I don't want to do it, or, I won't do my homework.
that those are the words that come out of the mouth. But logically, you have to understand that it's not the same as an adult brain that's already been developed. Yes.
Ryan Simpson (13:57.177)
When when would you say that development hits a point where they're maybe able to start managing more complex emotions like like what how long are they in the cave man or just emotional processing phase?
Andreina Bello (14:12.307)
The children, sorry, go ahead. Okay.
Amanda Riendeau (14:15.462)
No, go ahead. This is kind of a loaded question, Ryan. So I have some things. I'm going to let Andreina go first.
Andreina Bello (14:21.449)
Right. at seven, it's when children start to learn to develop the conscience of right or wrong. They start to see when their actions have more consequences, as opposed to being five. Two years is a short period of time, but there's a lot that happens in the brain during those three years. Yes.
Ryan Simpson (14:21.605)
I'm full of those.
Ryan Simpson (14:45.926)
Yeah, wow.
Andreina Bello (14:49.787)
and well, fully developed. mean, there's studies show that at age 25 is when the brain fully develops. You know, you're supposed to have more self-regulation.
Ryan Simpson (15:04.689)
So they tell me.
Amanda Riendeau (15:09.136)
And that's kind of where I was going to pinpoint too, right? mean, there are all these stages that were meant to go through and, you know, some of them happen between two and, zero and two years old. And then some of them happen between two and five. Kiddos can say, okay, this, you know, might be right or wrong, so to speak. This might get me in trouble. I know this might have some sort of consequence, but they're not going to be able to put all those pieces together.
Ryan Simpson (15:09.221)
I mean, did you have anything to add?
Amanda Riendeau (15:37.459)
for quite some time. Then we talk about moving into adolescence and the teenage years and even young adults. Think about some of the choices we were making when we were teenagers. We knew that if we didn't do our homework, we were going to get a zero. We knew if we didn't study for that test, we were going to fail. You know, we knew that if we took the car keys and went out for a joy ride in the middle of the night, our parents might call the police.
I mean, we knew all of those things, but we still did them because the other parts of our brain that were connecting all of those pieces together to say, this is not a good idea. Maybe I'm not going to do this. This is going to have an unpleasant consequence for me. It's not there yet. Not until your mid 20s. And some research even pushes that a little further. 25, 26, 27. So still lots of growing to do even when you're
an adult.
Ernie Reilly (16:37.326)
Ryan, oh, a couple thoughts. One of the things that's so neat about kids is that they can feel their emotions. They're just like, look at me. And they feel their emotions. It's just such a cool thing about kids. They just don't have the ability yet to regulate. So sometimes we'll use a metaphor of like their house is being built. Or you can think of an athlete that's just developing.
So first they just need to learn to kick the ball or do the little move, maybe a cartwheel or something. Even that's a little complex. But they're just learning these real basic things and then they can build and build and build. So in the house, you got the guard dog or what Amanda mentioned as the caveman. You've got the amygdala, which is part of our brain.
which is sometimes we call it the guard dog or the alarm system. And that part's there to keep us safe and make us aware of any and anything going on. And then you've got the prefrontal cortex. So you've got that thinking boss or the CEO of the brain and that part of our brain that needs to develop eventually to be pretty strong. So that way it can calm the dog down, right? So the dog starts barking and then the thinking boss can say, Hey, it's just a squirrel.
Right? It was just the Amazon delivery guy. We don't have to, we don't have to worry about that. Or it really is something we do need to worry about. But that stuff has to develop. And then you've got a whole nother part of the brain, which is all the experiences. The hippocampus is really like the emotional library, right? It's where all the memories are in the library. And so we've got all these books that we've talked about this another podcast. We've got all these books that are open and
Little kids, you got one of you, let's say you've got a little bit of trauma or your parents have gotten a divorce or something like that, and that's open and that's causing a whole lot of impact. You're going to have that. That causes these other parts of the brain to not operate even in their limited capacity as much as they could. If that makes sense. So you imagine like we're trying to do, we're trying to think through something.
Ernie Reilly (19:01.73)
and there's an alarm going off and a dog barking, right? We're not going to think through very well. Or we've got a book sitting there and it's saying, life is scary or bad stuff happens, or this is terrible. you know, whatever it might say, maybe it's trauma, maybe it's just difficult experiences. So you've got that. Those are all pretty challenging for a little kid. But one of the cool things to keep in mind though is
Ryan Simpson (19:16.55)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (19:29.738)
One of the things we love about little kids, right, about children is that they're just so free with their emotions. You know, like, look at me, yeah, you know, let's do it. You know, there's an old saying in life, try to please the eight-year-old you and the 80-year-old you. And that eight-year-old is the one that like, take on the world. You can do anything, right? An eight-year-old thinks life is, you know, we can do anything. And the 80-year-old you is the one that say, let's be wise, let's be smart.
Ryan Simpson (19:38.747)
never have to guess.
Ernie Reilly (19:59.022)
Now let's make sure it has purpose and wisdom. But if you have that eight-year-old you and that 80-year-old you and they're both like, this is great, you're probably making a good decision. That's a little off of play therapy, but it's just a little side thing. Just about how it's so neat.
Ryan Simpson (20:02.279)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (20:12.153)
No, that's a good that that's a good little decision making filter. I like that. So I think the answer to this next question, though, is kind of tucked into everything that we discussed thus far. But, Andreina, I want to give it to you. I hear a lot, especially when I'm talking with my friends who have kids in similar stages. And we're just talking about, you know, the week that just went by. I hear myself saying and my friends saying my child just needs to learn to calm down.
Like I need my child to be able to calm down. What do you wish they knew? Like what do you wish that we as parents knew about that sentence even?
Andreina Bello (20:51.945)
Right, well, you know, like when I do my therapy with, you know, with children, I also involve the parent. And then when the parent says something like, he needs to calm down, she needs to calm down, to understand that they have to do some co-regulation with the child. You need to model.
you know, with your body language, with your tone, you need to model calm. You need to show them how to calm down. know, yelling or telling your child to calm down while you're stressed out is not going to have very good results. I know it's easier said than done.
Ryan Simpson (21:24.103)
Hmm.
Andreina Bello (21:37.461)
but teaching those skills to parents, how to model that behavior for the child.
Ryan Simpson (21:47.025)
that makes a lot of sense. And I've actually I have watched my wife do that very successfully. And it is fascinating the difference of the response for my daughter versus when, you know, I can't. And I will, you know, finally break. And it just escalates. And then we just trade escalations. Me and my kiddos. And that doesn't seem to help at all. So yeah, I'm working on my calm.
So they just kind of mirror it. Is that what you're saying? They feed off the energy that we give to them, even when they're upset or in the midst of a meltdown.
Andreina Bello (22:23.103)
right.
Andreina Bello (22:27.079)
Yes, well, yes. And of course, you have to remind them, you know, you have to validate, you know, their feelings, let them calm down and always remind them that, you know, you'll be there for when they come down, they can come back to you, you can talk about it later. I know you have little ones that you want.
Amanda Riendeau (22:44.562)
Thank
Ryan Simpson (22:46.331)
Got it. Okay.
Ernie Reilly (22:51.018)
Ryan one one idea there is to think about that children actually learn how to regulate through connection That's the key connection their connection with us. They will learn how to regulate through Connecting with us and then learning how to do it through us. So we don't know how to regulate Our kids are gonna have more more trouble But if we can co-regulate Co just meaning we're regulating we're calming
Amanda Riendeau (23:00.54)
Yes.
Ernie Reilly (23:20.214)
We're saying we're problem solving, we're doing that. If we can do that, and our kids can learn that through us as their ability starts to grow, right? Each year, you know, again, like a first, you know, little kicker soccer player is not going to be able to like do the moves of a 12 year old or a 15 year old or a 17 year old, right? But they can do the moves of a three or four or five or six year old. They can do that and then they can develop. So as their skills go, if they've also
have someone coming alongside them who can teach them through connection, then that can help a whole lot. That's really how, that's key.
Ryan Simpson (23:59.985)
That makes sense. And I appreciate this philosophy. think it totally makes sense to me. I guess, Amanda, can you maybe if I'm a parent listening and I'm hearing, OK, I need to co-regulate. need to be calm. However, I'm in target and my kids on the floor. Right. Screaming in the aisle. So.
How would you advise maybe a parent in that situation to go into a co-regulation moment with the child, especially in public, which I think is probably one of the tougher spots.
Amanda Riendeau (24:32.182)
It is a tough response, right? Because as a parent, you're sitting in Target, pushing the cart down the aisle, kiddo sees the newest Bluey, right? And it's a half to have it. No Bluey today. I'm sorry, kiddo, right? And full blown on the floor, screaming, kicking, maybe even knocking things off the shelves. Every Bluey is now scattered across a five foot radius of Target. How are you feeling as a parent in that?
And let's take a moment to think about that. You're probably embarrassed. Your blood pressure is probably starting to elevate. Your breathing is getting heavy. All of the things that you're feeling as a parent in that moment, your kiddo is also feeling. The difference is you've learned how to navigate. Sometimes I don't get the things that I want when I go to Target. I can't have everything all the time. Your kiddo doesn't quite understand that yet.
And so in those moments, as hard as it is, right, to say, hey, you know, I know that feeling disappointed can be really painful. I know that hurts. I know how much you love Louis. And I, in this moment, it's just not the time, right? Let's take a break. Let's go walk around. And in those moments when you're walking target, we're doing breathing exercises.
And sometimes that might look like people will use the examples of blowing up a balloon big big deep breath in a big breath out and we keep doing and we do it together Right or we find something that could be another distraction. We're walking in the store identifying all the things that are red We're identifying all the things that look like something else and we're doing those practices with the kiddo while also acknowledging
the big feelings that they're having. Disappointment is painful. Disappointment is tough. Having feelings like disappointment for a kiddo doesn't make sense. We understand sad. So, sad disappointment for a kid might be the same thing. They might be crying. It's okay to cry when you're sad. Acknowledge what they're doing. Acknowledge how they're feeling. Make them feel okay about, I feel sad.
Ryan Simpson (26:39.943)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Riendeau (26:55.064)
I feel disappointed. I'm not going to get what I want today. But mom is here, or dad is here, auntie is here. And I'm going to be right here with you until you feel better about this. And then later we can process and all the things if your kids age appropriate. But how you're feeling, they're feeling it too. But you have more skills than they do. So practicing and showing them what that looks like so that now they know how to do that next time.
It's not a guarantee you're not going to get another meltdown in target, but it might be shorter. And they might start to decrease in frequency over time. You got to teach them what to do if you want to see something different. Very common motto in all of my therapy. I'll probably say it 700 times this evening. What we're doing might not be working. That just means we have to make an adjustment.
Ryan Simpson (27:38.225)
Got it. Okay.
Ryan Simpson (27:50.917)
Okay, yeah, and kids are really flexible, right? If I've learned anything, it's that they are super flexible. So that's okay. Those are really helpful.
Ernie Reilly (27:58.606)
Right, and I remember one time being in Panera, and so I'm in Panera and my one son tackles my other son, and they are just wrestling on the floor of Panera while we're online. And I'm thinking, yes, I am a child and family therapist. Yes, I am a professional, and my kids are doing this, right? Kids have, emotions are signals, right? They're data.
Andreina Bello (28:16.661)
Thank
Ernie Reilly (28:25.036)
We want to pay attention to those things because they're really essential to know what's going on with them. They just don't know how to regulate them yet, but they're good information for us to have. We want to teach them over time, emotions are great, but they shouldn't run the show. With adults, we say all the time, emotions are like kids. Pay close attention to them, nurture them, take good care of them, but don't let them run the household. Don't let them drive the bus.
Ryan Simpson (28:35.847)
Hmm.
Ernie Reilly (28:53.23)
You let the kids drive the bus, you're going to end up in a ditch. And the idea there is that they're not yet developed to be able to do that. But their emotions are signals of something that, you know, it's neat that kids want things. I mean, if you have a kid that just had apathy, that would actually, you probably have a depressed kid. But a kid who wants bluey? Well, I mean, it's meant to be wanted, right? They're the marketers have put a lot of energy into making that thing super appealing.
Ryan Simpson (29:13.563)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Riendeau (29:14.075)
you
Ernie Reilly (29:22.06)
And it's neat that kids, they want things. We don't really want wanting stuff so much, it's supposed to be wanted. That's what the marketers are getting. And your kid wanting it is just being a normal child. Their emotions are signals. We want them to have their emotions. We just want to help them over time learn to not let the emotions run the show.
Ryan Simpson (29:48.881)
That makes sense. Okay, so I want to start digging into the actual therapy then. So if we've got a situation where we do want to start engaging in play therapy for one of these kids, Amanda, I'd love to hear from both of you. What does a play therapy session actually look like? Like tell us about how you would run a child or play therapy.
Amanda Riendeau (30:14.3)
Hmm, well, know, parents spied on or jumped in on a play therapy session. They might be a little confused at first, right? Because from the outside, it looks a lot like we're just playing games or we're playing with building blocks or we're playing with toy soldiers and toy dolls or stuffed animals. The thing about that is though,
kids express and feel and kind of recreate their experiences and their environments that they're in and the feelings that they're having through their play. I as a parent, sit silently somewhere in a corner and watch how your kiddo plays. They're recreating things that maybe they've been through. Or...
they're redoing the whole conversation of going through the Amazon catalog, because I know everybody got one, of circling all the things that they want and how mom responded to you circled every page. Kiddos process everything through their play. And so what might look like we're sitting here playing a board game from the outside looking in, we're working on how to play ball with others.
We're working on how to keep up with following the rules. And inside some of that game play, we're also exploring how does it feel to be maybe losing an uno for a half minute? Or, you know, what does it feel like when something like that happens? When has it been a time that a kid has been challenged by something and maybe not really fully understanding what's happening? And how do we get through that?
if, and I'll probably let Andrina speak a little bit more on like when we're working with kids on very specific behaviors or very specific concerns related to like trauma or other experiences because all of that comes out in their play. It's not just us having a lot of fun. We are having a blast with your kiddos in that time. But there's so much underneath it that happens because that's the way those kiddos are expressing themselves.
Andreina Bello (32:39.839)
Okay. So going back to your question, you asked how do I do the play therapy? Okay. And that depends on the child because everybody is very different, very particular. Everybody comes into therapy with different needs. Some children have difficulty maybe following the rules or taking turns. So in that case, I take the lead more.
I choose the game. Not all the time, but it's a way for me to teach them also to kind of, it's okay to take turns, it's okay to play somebody else's game. When the child comes into therapy, let's say for anxiety, I normally let them lead more often in order to empower them to make them feel more confident.
Normally, if let's say a child is playing, you know, we play a lot with, you know, stuffed animals, know, puppets and things like that. You know, let's say a child picks a puppet. We have different types of puppets and they all mean something. You know, you can have a shark, a monkey, a snake. So normally when the child picks a...
a puppet, I don't, I track out loud what he's doing or what's happening. But I, and this is my style, know, everybody has a different style. I never or I rarely name the toy they pick. So I never say, so I see you pick the shark or I see you pick the turtle because in their minds it can be a teacher or it can be a friend.
or it can be themselves. kids have a lot of imagination. So sometimes, you know, they, you know, I say, so you picked a turtle. It's like, no, that's my sister. You know, so it's about not ruining the moment for the child, you know, that he's having. So I use a lot of tracking and tracking is used to make the child feel seen.
Andreina Bello (35:06.133)
when he's playing and also to make them to reflect back the awareness on like the emotions they're feeling. Because the child might not be fully aware that, you know, he's playing out like anger or fear. you see, you can say, oh, I see, know, you're, you know, say like the child ends up saying, yeah, there's sharks and there's, oh, I see the sharks are angry now. And that way the,
he can listen to like the word, angry. Okay, so even though he's not saying out loud, I understand, or I get that you're saying, you know, that my sharks are angry. He understands now, okay, so this is a feeling that I'm showing I didn't know about before. So that's how you create awareness, sense. I hope that makes sense.
Ryan Simpson (35:58.095)
OK, that actually makes me think though.
And the comment about watching watching your children play, what are some signals that that maybe we as parents should be looking for to say, we should consider maybe some play therapy, or it's time to consider this for my child? Like, how can I tell if it's just my child being a child, right, and having big emotions, or struggling at a developmental phase? To a point where a I think play therapy could actually help this kiddo, what should parents be looking for?
Andreina Bello (36:36.469)
Right, well, in my case, if I notice a child is withdrawing a bit too much or the child is hurting himself, hurting...
others, you know, and for the parent is becoming overwhelming. The parent is having a hard time regulating themselves. So I think that's a good time to maybe seek some help. Not really sure what my peers have to say about, you know, that. But that's
Ryan Simpson (36:58.887)
Hmm.
Andreina Bello (37:15.401)
Those are signs that it's always good to look for more tools to see what's going on. If the parent doesn't come up with the answers, it can't come up with why the child's acting up.
Ryan Simpson (37:27.653)
Okay.
Amanda Riendeau (37:29.956)
I think I would like to add to, since I was the one that kind of threw out the idea, know, sit back and watch your kiddo. You know, maybe play therapy is an option. If you're noticing that when your child is playing, right, that they're coming and seeking constant validation for you or from you on how they're playing or the story that they're trying to tell when they're playing.
If you're noticing certain themes, right, just because we're professionals and a parent might not be other than the fact that they're a professional at being a parent to their child, you guys are going to catch on to things that say, you know, something just doesn't feel right. The story seems darker or worrisome. You know, it's okay that your kids want the dinosaurs to eat off each other's heads.
Right? Dinosaurs ate off each other's heads. That doesn't necessarily mean your child is angry or, you know, that they want to hurt themselves or other people or that they have some sort of aggression. Right? Dinosaurs ate each other. That's part of nature's, you know, You know, but if there starts to become reoccurring themes, it seems like this is becoming more prevalent than not.
Ryan Simpson (38:30.279)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Riendeau (38:56.294)
where we start to see that play translate into playing with others. If it goes from my dinosaurs are fighting to I'm fighting my siblings or I'm fighting my classmates, that might be something that says maybe we should explore some options. But of course, I'll also throw in that play therapy is just a good outlet for kiddos generally.
Ryan Simpson (39:07.184)
you
Amanda Riendeau (39:24.028)
good space for them to learn some of the things that we're wanting them to learn so they can just calm down. There doesn't necessarily have to be anything that's alarming or alerting you as a parent to say, maybe my kid could use some extra support or guidance. Maybe I could use some extra support or guidance. Just having an extra outlet, an opportunity to feel heard and seen and validated and
what they're going through as kids. It's probably really the only suggestion you need to explore.
Ryan Simpson (40:01.017)
Okay. So I'm wondering, go ahead.
Ernie Reilly (40:02.424)
Ryan, one of the things that I... I was just gonna add something to that. One of the things I think about is like play is a child's language. So they're much more eloquent and able to express themselves through their play. So if you were talking to your friend or your spouse and you got to a place where you're like, ooh, I think maybe we could do some professional help on that, right? You're talking to another adult.
Right, that you're using English or Spanish or German, whatever, French, some language, and you're speaking and you're concluding that, ooh, I think probably some professional help would be helpful. Play as a kid's language. And certainly not everything that your spouse or your friend or your brother or your sister says or you say that might be a little bit like, man, there's some big feelings there or something. It means you need therapy.
You may not need anything, or you just process through it. But if you're getting stuck, like the wheels just keep sticking. They're going, but they're not moving. So that's when you probably want to look. If you're seeing problematic behaviors coming about, just like with an adult, you're seeing lots of problematic behaviors. If it's impacting their mood, they're really depressed, they're really angry, they're really sad a lot, they're stuck in some sort of rut.
Ryan Simpson (41:17.127)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (41:25.698)
they keep going through the same thing over and over and over again, and they can't seem to resolve it, then you probably want to get some assistance just to help get through that. And play is a child's language, so for a child, that's probably going to be play therapy. That's what we would do. And there's two different types of play therapy. I wanted to throw back, and when we're talking about what a play therapy session might look like, there's directive play therapy, and there's non-directive play therapy.
So, Andreina was talking a little bit about non-directed play therapy. When she tracks, you know, follows a child and the child is kind of guiding with their play and they're kind of directing it. We're kind of walking on, it's like if you're sitting with an adult and you say, tell me what's going on, Ryan. And Ryan says, my goodness, my kid this morning and all this stuff. so you were letting you guide the discussion. That would be non-directed play therapy.
Ryan Simpson (42:08.092)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (42:20.43)
Directive play therapy would be more like what Amanda was talking about when she said, you you might have to beat the kid with UNO. You know, so we were usually pretty good at those games. So we know when to lose, but we also know when to win. Right. And so the kid may need to lose, right. Or the kid may need to win. We're going to do directive things like particular games, particular interventions that we're choosing for a very specific reason.
to address a very specific issue. maybe that helps a little bit to have a little bit more understanding of those kind of different interventions that we can do with kids. But overall, play is their language. So if you're seeing things in their language that really say something's not right, something's off, or if you just know, hey, mom and dad are getting a divorce, that's really hard for even mom and dad who are like,
fully developed adults, it's hard for them. They could probably use some counseling. Certainly the kids could probably use some counseling. So sometimes it's just circumstances. Grandma dies, death of a loved one, things of that sort. So sometimes it's just circumstances or sometimes it's what you're seeing.
Ryan Simpson (43:20.423)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (43:38.993)
So if I'm a parent and I have my child in some play therapy and I'm watching them have a blast and play in either non-directive or directive, which was a super helpful framework. Thank you for laying that out, everybody. What does progress look like? If I'm a parent, how can I see or what am I looking for to see how my child might be growing through these activities?
Amanda Riendeau (44:10.066)
I think to start, if we focus on some of the directive type of play, if we're talking about a kiddo that comes in and meltdowns seem to be related to things like it always seems to be that transition between dinner, then they have a little bit of a break where they can play games or usually video games these days.
And then I can't get him in the bathtub or I can't get him to go brush his teeth. I can't get him to go to bed because it's just a full-on nightmare. And so we're working on the transition of, right, these are the expectations or this is right. One thing leads to the next thing leads to the next thing. And maybe we're working with timers even in this situation to say, okay, we know from after dinner time.
We have 30 minutes to play whatever it is. And then when the timer goes off, we're going to practice transitioning from this really fun thing that we're loving to do to something maybe we don't like to do, like cleaning up the play room. And we practice that every time we're in session. So ideally what you're doing when I'm coming out and saying, hey, here's what we worked on today. I'd love to see if this also works at home. We're going to start to see the behaviors.
You might also hear we're practicing on your kiddo identifying feelings with a color or by playing feelings ID which is what I encourage most of my parents to do. Homework assignment number one for most of my families when we're talking about my kiddo doesn't understand his big feelings is we do feeling charades. There's plenty of lists on the internet with feelings words or emojis depending on the age of the kid. We cut those up, them.
We stick them in the jar every day at dinner time and everybody goes around the dinner table and we all practice what a feeling looks like, what it feels like inside, what an example of when I felt like that might be and how I handled it. Those are things that we can do because we're teaching them and practicing them, not only when they're with us, but when they're at home.
Amanda Riendeau (46:27.708)
we're gonna see the behaviors that you want to see increase and the behaviors that we don't love to see ideally decrease.
Ryan Simpson (46:36.251)
Got it. Okay. So, Andrina, if you're working with a child, what are some things that you're hopeful that a parent could do to support the work that you're doing? Because it feels like, based on what Amanda is saying, it very much is a team effort, right? Between the parents and the therapist. So what are some things that you hope parents are doing to support the work that's happening in the office?
Andreina Bello (47:01.231)
well, I normally, you know, ask the, the, parents to, you know, to do some play therapy with the children. And I explained to them a little bit what it looks like, kind of like, you know, what we did here. and you know, when we do say, I do a lot of like behavior charts, a lot of, you know, besides play therapy, you know, a lot of, just to see progress, you know, just to look.
what it looks like. normally towards the end, you know, with the rewards, more so than going to the dollar store, just, you know, getting some, you know, ice cream. I normally ask parents to spend some quality time with the with the child, you know, 10 minutes here and there, you know, as a reward instead of like the physical material things that way, you know,
Ryan Simpson (47:52.423)
Hmm.
Andreina Bello (47:58.164)
the child can relate, know, play therapy, it goes home, you know, we kind of follow some structure and slowly the child starts to learn, you know, more emotional vocabulary. So that's what progress would look like, you know, once the child starts to verbalize more how he feels and understands that it's okay to be angry at times. And it's not the end of the world.
It's like riding the wave of emotions.
Ryan Simpson (48:33.457)
Yeah, that makes sense. Amanda, is there anything that has been particularly helpful when parents are partnering with you?
Ernie Reilly (48:33.838)
Surfing.
Amanda Riendeau (48:41.33)
I would say that probably the most helpful thing is that parents also acknowledge they don't have all the answers either. And sometimes we don't know what we're doing in terms of how we're regulating our emotions. So when I'm coming to you and end of a session and we're talking about the things that we're working on and I'm saying, hey, it'd great to try this out. Don't be afraid to try it out.
And also don't be afraid to come back and be like, yeah, that didn't work in my house. I don't know how that works in here, right? Because we can make little adjustments. also have to acknowledge kids are very good at working in the environments they're comfortable in. know, the one thing that probably can just get under a parent's skin sometimes is to acknowledge kids behave at their worst sometimes when they're with you and they're
when they're with others because you're safe. They know it's okay. They know you're gonna be able to take care of them. You're still going to be there. But I think for parents to take the leap, right? Maybe you don't normally sit down and play video games with your kiddos. I mean, the controllers now have more than two buttons, right? That's the gaming system I grew up with. One little toggle, two little buttons, right?
Ernie Reilly (50:02.798)
Hmm.
Amanda Riendeau (50:04.07)
They look very different now. And so I don't know that I'd be able to do that. But if that's how we're going to have a communication session with our kiddo and understand like how they're playing and what that's meaning and what we might've been practicing in session, you got to get down there and learn how to play Madden. Do it. Or you might not do so well because it's got so many buttons. We might just at least have an opportunity.
to be in the moment and see what your kiddo is doing and how they're expressing themselves in
Ryan Simpson (50:39.397)
I mean, that's, that's probably strong advice anyway, right? Just, and I love that the quality time, feels like there's kind of a theme going where like our kids just want to spend time with us is what it sounds like. And there's a lot of health that comes from that. But I'm curious, Dr. Ernie, I was just kind of wondering this as we've been talking, it, I don't know as a parent, how I would feel if, if my child did need
therapy or if I felt like I got to the end of where I could help my kid and they needed therapy now. I might feel like I failed. So what would you say to a parent maybe who comes into the office and is feeling like they failed their child because their child needs therapy? I'd just love to hear some of your perspective on that.
Ernie Reilly (51:29.836)
Yeah, I would say that every life, right? Our life, our kids' lives, we all have struggles. We're going to have struggles. So if you're, again, to use the metaphor of an athlete, an athlete doesn't come to their sport and they've got it all down. There's all sorts of stuff to work on. And so why wouldn't you get a good coach to help coach if you want to be a good athlete?
So that's not failing to go get a good coach. That's actually just smart. So I would say that first, we all have stuff. Little guys, big guys, big people, little people, all have stuff, first of all. Second of all, if it matters and you wanna do it right, then do it right. And if it matters, get the helpers, get the coaches, get the teachers.
that can help guide things, get the right tools, learn the right things. I don't see, I would think failure would be that there's big problems and we don't want to admit that. That would probably be the only failure. You have big problems, but you're willing to admit it and go get help. That's not failure, that's just smart. You have little problems and you get a little bit of help, that's just smart.
So I don't, know, if somebody were to say, I think I'm failing, I would say the fact that you're paying attention and you care and you're, you're, want to get your kids help. That's a, you know, it's a big high five. That's a way to go. That's not failure. That's smart.
Ryan Simpson (52:55.377)
I think that's a great analogy.
Ryan Simpson (53:07.761)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (53:11.813)
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's certainly an aha moment, right? For me right there. The year your Olympic athletes, the best in the world at their sport, all have a coach. So yes, so these are the people at the top of their game, no one's better than them. And they have a coach. So if they need they need a coach, we all certainly need coaches, especially for things that are new. And if your first time, you know,
Ernie Reilly (53:23.308)
Yeah, usually several.
Ryan Simpson (53:38.725)
parents your first kid all that stuff is new you learning it all with your kids so coaching is is always good and a part of it so I'd love to hear though Amanda and Rina who wants to go first can you share a story obviously you know without names change details as needed but I'd love to just maybe hear an example of some kids who benefited from some play therapy with you and what that was like
Andreina Bello (54:06.835)
Yes, I'm currently working with a little girl. She's five. And she came to therapy because she has meltdowns due to perfectionism. So she wants to make everything right. So even if you ask her to, you know, draw something, she will rip up the page if she thinks it came out wrong. So what we started doing, and I include mom.
in these sessions so that also mom learns the skills and deals with this. So we have started to play silly games, like silly drawing games, and who draws the silliest drawing. And so we have fun and we laugh. so we have the teaching moment. We have a conversation towards the end of the therapy and say, you see, it's a
you know, the idea is like to have fun. It's okay to make mistakes. And so the I started to see, you know, progress when mom came. Parents are normally very proactive and they give you feedback. So she told me, you know, so such and so, you know, so and so came back from school. And she told me, you know, I'm going to tell Miss Bello that I didn't.
cry today, you know, in spite of like messing up my drawing, know, so that that that's progress. And that's kind of like that once warms my heart, you know, whenever I hear a kid saying, I'm going to tell me about, you you know, not crying today. so.
Amanda Riendeau (55:53.403)
And I would think I knew what is so hard sometimes But maybe one that I would share because it's a little it's a little unique in the space and so This was a kiddo that was generally a pretty good kid he It was kind of quiet and kept to himself Until he was no longer the only child
So, sibling comes into play, he's about seven at the time, and we started, parents brought him because they were like, hey, you know, it's been like six months, and the only thing that's really changed, but we're seeing an increase in temper tantrums, and now he won't go to bed, and now he's refusing to go to school, right? All these escalating behaviors that kept happening. And so, through our...
We're talking, right, working with some puppets, role-playing the different spaces that each family member is in and how the kiddo was responding, what his thoughts were in those moments when it finally came out that, you know, I feel like now that my baby brother is here, they never want to spend time with me. It's always the baby needs a bottle or can you go get the baby a diaper or...
You know, mom's always holding the baby and dad doesn't want to come outside because he's too tired. And so some of that started to come out in the play that we were doing. And when you bring in the parents for them to know, number one, they're heartbroken, right? That was definitely not anything that was on their radar. That's definitely not a parent's intent. It's unfortunately some of the conversation we were having is babies can't get up and get their own bottles just yet.
Ryan Simpson (57:45.415)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Riendeau (57:46.035)
It's not going to be able to change his own diaper for a hot minute. So, but here's ways that maybe you can be included in that. And then telling the parents and working in a conversation with the family and how the kiddo can say, in this moment, I'm feeling very lonely and I need some attention. Right? Can we go throw the ball? You know, can dad put the baby to bed?
three nights a week so that mom can put him to bed. And we finally worked out a pattern where the kiddo felt like he was more included, not just in spending individual time with his parents, but also helping with his little brother and not feeling like the little brother was a burden and an attention hog anymore, but that he was part of the family. Because when that baby first came, he felt like he was kind of cast aside and wasn't the intent. Sometimes it just unfortunately
Ryan Simpson (58:37.127)
Mmm.
Amanda Riendeau (58:42.352)
kind of happens when the chaos of a new baby happens and we're trying to juggle all the stuff that comes with that. But to watch him go through the process and to be, you know, seven turned eight when we were working together and be able to say, this is what I'm feeling, this is what's been my thing. And it's just that that always works, right? If I yell or scream or throw a toy, you'll look at me.
And so going through that process with the parents and getting them an opportunity to work side by side with him to figure out how can we make sure you don't feel that way? Because that was never our intention. And the whole family kind of grew from that space and from that experience. Again, not a parent failure, just babies require a lot of attention and sometimes that unintentionally happens. And how do we adjust?
Ryan Simpson (59:26.225)
Yeah.
Ryan Simpson (59:30.791)
I bet.
Ryan Simpson (59:35.237)
life.
Amanda Riendeau (59:42.482)
How do we move forward?
Ryan Simpson (59:44.507)
Man, my heart is breaking thinking about a five year old struggling with perfectionism and an eight year old struggling with like sharing mom and dad for the first time, which I can't imagine how hard that would be. So thank you both for wading into those spaces, right? Which have to be so difficult. So thank you for having the courage to do that to help these kids.
Amanda Riendeau (59:51.239)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (01:00:13.157)
and to help these families. I know that the impact is going to be felt for a long time for all these people. So my last question for all of you would be if a parent is listening and is on the fence about starting therapy, what would you say to them or what would you want them to know as they considered if this was the right next step for them?
Andreina Bello (01:00:36.105)
Well, yeah, like the I would validate, you know, their feelings. I understand, you know, there's some doubts.
about starting therapy. It's okay to feel that way. therapy, would try to make them understand that therapy is about connection. It's about giving children tools to build resilience and to learn emotional vocabulary, to learn how to self-regulate. And it's about having a safe place in which you can
you know, be yourself and communicate, you know, and have a better bond with your child. So that's what I would tell a parent, because I understand that, you know, sometimes therapy can be stigmatized. You know, and there's nothing better than, you know, actually, you know, going to a place, having your full hour in which you can say and do whatever you want without judgment.
Ryan Simpson (01:01:29.447)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Simpson (01:01:41.659)
Yeah, talk about freedom. Amanda, would you add anything?
Amanda Riendeau (01:01:45.267)
I think I add maybe like a one-liner on, you know, we don't know until we do it. If we're on the fence, that means something's coming up, right? That means something might feel off or we're concerned and we have more questions, right? Come give us a test drive. There's nothing that says when you walk through the door, you're stuck with me for the rest of your life.
There's something else, I'm not going to move in. It's an opportunity for everybody to grow. you know, you're right, it doesn't work for everybody. It's not everybody's cup of tea. But if nothing else, it's a different perspective. We're looking and we'll look at the same box, but we'll look at it from a different direction. And maybe that's exactly what was needed in that moment. Could be all it takes.
It's not necessarily a lifelong commitment. Could just be a few weeks. Could just be a refresher course.
Ryan Simpson (01:02:48.635)
I love it. That's a great point. Yeah, that's a great point.
Ernie Reilly (01:02:52.43)
On the other hand Ryan, another way to think about that also is, hey, through life, your child's going to have some stuff come up. Pretty likely. And, you know, there's reason why you get a pediatrician. You get a pediatrician because you know there's going to be illnesses, or you know there's going to be different things that need to be taken care of over time. So having a good therapist that you connected with, they feel comfortable with, they can come in, do a little tune up work, or just, you know, address something.
Ryan Simpson (01:03:02.407)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (01:03:22.338)
here and there when something comes up, that's great to know. So even if it turns out you come in and the therapist is like, hey, this really isn't much that we need to worry about, that's because many times that's what we say is we say, hey, this, you go practice these things, but I think they're going to be great. But now they know a place where when things come up, they can come in and, I trust, I trust Andreina or I trust Amanda. They're great. think they can, you know, she can help me a whole lot.
And so having someone on your Rolodex, so to speak, showing my age by using that term, where you can pull up and say, I can connect with this person and bring my child in when something comes up. It's great to have.
Ryan Simpson (01:04:07.079)
That trust is huge. Yeah. All right. Well, I want to talk to our listeners real quick. At the counseling quarter, we believe that every child deserves a space to feel seen, heard and supported. If you feel like you and or your child could just use some supportive emotions or life situations feel overwhelming. This team are our wonderful team of child play therapists who really care.
about you about your child about your family are here to help. So please visit counseling corner.net to learn more about our child and play therapy sessions or to schedule a session at one of our offices in Orlando, Claremont or Orange City. But you can also reach us at our phone number for 407-843-4968 or shoot us an email at info at counseling corner.net
Thank you Amanda and Andreina and Dr. Ernie as always for being part of a wonderful conversation. I've learned a lot. I feel encouraged from my family. I'm sure our listeners do too. So thanks for taking the time with us today.
Ernie Reilly (01:05:15.278)
Thank you, Ryan.
Andreina Bello (01:05:15.529)
Thank you.
Amanda Riendeau (01:05:15.826)
Thanks, Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (01:05:17.101)
Absolutely. Well, you've been listening to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by the Counseling Corner. Thank you again to our listeners for staying tuned with us. If this conversation encouraged you, please share it with another parent or anyone else taking care of kids who might need a reminder that big feelings aren't the problem. They're actually the path to connection and growth. Play is a language, right? And kids are resilient and you can connect with them through these things.
So this conversation encourage you please share it. Please like it subscribe. You can visit us on YouTube Spotify Apple or follow us on Facebook or Instagram. But until next time take care of yourself your family and the people you love. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you again.
Ernie Reilly (01:06:05.528)
Thank you.
Amanda Riendeau (01:06:07.859)
Thanks.