Real Talk: What Marriage Counseling is Really Like
Show Notes:
In this episode of Real Life Counseling, hosts Ryan Simpson and Dr. Ernie Reilly, LCSW engage with David and Dayanna, a couple who share their journey through marriage counseling. They discuss their love story, the challenges they faced, and the importance of communication and counseling in their relationship. The conversation highlights the significance of ongoing support, the impact of parenting on their marriage, and the tools they've gained through counseling to navigate their relationship. David and Dayanna emphasize the value of seeking help and the transformative power of counseling in building a strong partnership
Takeaways
Counseling can provide essential tools for relationship growth.
Communication styles can differ significantly between partners.
It's important to understand each other's backgrounds and experiences.
Premarital counseling can help address potential issues before marriage.
Ongoing counseling can serve as a 'tune-up' for relationships.
Creating a safe space for communication is crucial in a marriage.
Intentions behind actions matter in understanding conflicts.
Parenting together strengthens the partnership and teamwork.
Counseling is not just for crises; it can be preventive.
Personal growth through counseling benefits the relationship as a whole.
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Transcript:
Ryan Simpson (08:50.663)
Welcome to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by The Counseling Corner. I'm Ryan and I'm here with Dr. Ernie, licensed clinical social worker and founder of The Counseling Corner. Today's episode is a special one. We're sitting down with David and Dayanna, who went through marriage counseling right here at The Counseling Corner with Dr. Ernie. They've been gracious enough to join us to share their experience, the real conversations, the challenges, what they've learned through the process, whether you're considering marriage counseling or just want to understand
How couples work through conflict and grow stronger, this episode is for you. David Dayanna, how you doing today?
David Morillo (09:23.224)
Good. We're good.
Ryan Simpson (09:24.867)
Wonderful. Dr. Ernie, you doing all right?
Ernie Reilly (09:27.061)
I'm doing great, thanks Ryan.
Ryan Simpson (09:28.753)
Perfect. All right, well, I don't want to waste time. Let's jump in if that's okay. David and Dayanna, can you just give us a flyover of your story? How did you meet? How did you end up getting married? Give us the background.
David Morillo (09:33.304)
Yeah. Yes.
David Morillo (09:44.513)
I want to put this disclaimer out before we even go into anything else here is that for Dayanna and I, our worldview shapes how our story is told. And so just want to acknowledge that we are going to be referring to God throughout this process because it's just part of our faith and our worldview in believing that he was the one that orchestrated a lot of this movement for us to be together, stay together, even how we discovered Ernie.
but it's not meant to be offensive. It's not meant to convert anyone. I don't think that it's our job to do that, but it is our job to bear witness to what was true in our story. And so we hope that you can, if you don't believe what we believe, just believe that we believe it. And I don't need you to believe it, but just also recognize that it is important for us in telling our story that we incorporate our faith into it because it's what we feel is the foundation for what has caused us to be able to stick together through.
some really challenging times. But with that disclaimer in play, I would say that Dayanna and I met in New York City. I was living a really grimy life in New York, working in retail as kind of a cover for the reality in which I was kind of like living in as a former drug dealer. And Dayanna ended up working at the same retail stores as me. And we just...
got to know each other and through that process. I don't want to say that it was at least love for me. It was a lot of lust at first. She is beautiful as you can see. And at the time I had a low kind of bar in terms of knowing what love was because I grew up in a really messed up family. But with that being said, I met Dayanna and there was something really unique about her at the time and that she was one, she is beautiful, but she had a faith.
in God that was attractive and foreign to me at the time because I didn't. And somehow through that we found the ability to kind of connect and be together. almost immediately it was kind of chaotic because we weren't grounded in anything real at the time. that's just kind of pretty much. the gist of it is about almost 28 years ago, very young, trying to serve God, but obviously not.
David Morillo (12:06.572)
the right way, hit or miss basically, but still trying. But yeah, that's pretty much it. We met at the Reestel store, briefly dated on and off. And then you decided to move over here. Yeah, so a little bit after she and I met, I felt like I had a transformational moment in New York where I felt challenged to just see that the world was bigger than the one that I was living in. And so ultimately,
I ghosted her. left everything behind. In 1998, I moved to Orlando. There was an ex-girlfriend that I had that moved out here. We weren't even together, but it was just kind of exploring that and exploring just needing to be somewhere else. And through that process is where I had a conversion experience, where I had this profound experience with God. It led to about a year and a half, two years into that experience.
I had this weird epiphany that brought me to a place of thinking about people that I had hurt, people that I had wounded in my life intentionally, and that I just didn't leave in the right way. And a name that just kept popping up in my heart was Dayanna's. And I didn't know how to find her. I didn't know how to get to her other than, you know, yellow pages and looking. I remember her affiliation to the Salvation Army in Queens, New York.
And so I just called like eight salvation armies. We found each other again and ended up starting what would be a platonic relationship at first because she was in another relationship. And then. We're talking about that time of year life. That's how my life was very interesting. He had left. I didn't hear anything about him. His friends had told me what he was up to. I had no idea the other life that he was living. And then he called me and.
I was with someone else and we just became friends. And then after I broke up with my relationship, then, you know, we just started exploring what this can be. And that he was there and I was here and it was a long distance relationship for a little while until I finally decided to take the plunge and move to Florida after he told me not to. I warned her over some chicken and broccoli. I warned her there's an Asian food theme here, Ernie.
Ryan Simpson (14:16.006)
Ha
David Morillo (14:21.23)
But I did warn her. But no, was a challenging time because I was trying to explore what it meant to live out my faith in real time. Also drawn relationally to Deanna and we were in different places faith-wise at the time and it just became a thing where we wanted what we wanted no matter what anyone told us. And so in the Christian world, the next progressive step after dating and not
being able to do that well was just get married. That was the next evolution of the thing. And through that process, I had met Ernie along the way for one-on-one counseling. And then later on when it came time for marriage counseling, it just felt like an organic thing to go to Ernie to help at least pretend that we were getting counseling to help us enter into this marriage in a healthy way.
Ryan Simpson (15:18.961)
So was there anything going on in the relationship that said, hey, we should try marriage counseling, or was it just something that you wanted to get started with right away?
David Morillo (15:26.662)
there was a lot. Yeah. You want to go on that? Yes. We were trying to stay pure, which we were not doing a very good job about it. Go ahead. Does everyone get that drift? No, I don't know if we're being too coy about it. But like in the Christian world, it's kind of frowned upon to be sleeping together before marriage. we couldn't not do that in that beginning issue.
Ernie Reilly (15:29.69)
Thank
David Morillo (15:55.041)
Yeah, and you know, we were just trying to we knew that we wanted to marry each other. We had already been engaged. We shouldn't have waited probably that long. We should have just gotten married right away. But either way, if we waited or not, we were not in the right mind state to kind of enter a serious relationship, you know, marriage like that. So we wanted to, you know, to get counsel, we wanted to go to premarital counseling because a lot of people get married and they don't know what that means, meaning like
you know, how are you going to raise your children? How are your finances going to be? You know, what your views are. A lot of couples don't talk about that before they go into marriage. So we knew that it was important that we're both be on the same page and Ernie was a great, you know, way that we can do that.
Ryan Simpson (16:40.305)
So what was that premarital counseling experience like?
David Morillo (16:44.77)
Interesting. There was a lot. went, you we talked about all the things that we needed to talk about, but outside of like our actual sessions, I had a hard time because, you know, when we got married, I was 33. I've been on my own since I was 19. So like the whole financial, like, okay, I understood that both of our accounts, and this is the way that we chose the way, you know, to have our marriage, but just having the accounts together and kind of talking about like if we go over a certain limit on what we want to purchase, we got to talk to each other.
Ryan Simpson (16:59.815)
Hmm.
David Morillo (17:14.166)
And, you know, being on my own for 33 years, I was like, I make my own money. Why do I have to ask somebody if I can spend a certain amount for a certain thing? And just our views, I'm glad that we did speak about how our kids are going to be raised. We're pretty similar in that page, even now, because we both grew up very differently, but we do agree on certain things that we don't want the kids to do versus what we want them to do. And just, you know, working on our communication. So, you know, those are the things that we...
Ernie Reilly (17:21.813)
Thank
David Morillo (17:43.289)
we talked to Ernie about and even afterwards it was a constant communication of what our thoughts were on what marriage should look like. So I would say that yes and we had very different communication styles, still do have very different communication styles where I'm very much an extrovert, she's an introvert. I'm in the relationship, think traditional roles are reversed in the sense that
I love talking about feelings, thoughts, and emotions and like, let's just get to it. And Dayanna needs time to process and to kind of work through her feelings and what she's going through. And really coming from unhealthy backgrounds in very different ways, where my family's kind of like drama was very much front and center. My father has multiple kids with different baby mamas and I grew up in a very volatile kind of environment.
Dayanna's parents that nucleus is still together She has three other brothers and like there's a different dynamic and all of that was clashing as soon as like we started talking about what a future looks like together because I'm competing against shadows of her expectations and She's competing against my you know and both coming into something thinking that we're gonna fix each other and that were some type of weird project and Come to find out Ernie set us straight. Yeah
Ernie Reilly (19:05.726)
I'm
Ryan Simpson (19:05.873)
So, yeah, what were the things that you learned about in premarital and how were you able to carry them into your marriage, at least at first?
David Morillo (19:18.638)
I think one of the big, there were many, because when you do this thing, this dance where Ernie, he's masterful, I want people to know, I just need to say this, because I'm gonna compliment Ernie a lot, we're not being paid to do this, we volunteered to do this, and it's important for us to do this, because one, our marriage is not perfect, we believe in being vulnerable and just honest about where we're at, but I cannot deny the effect.
Ryan Simpson (19:35.559)
you
David Morillo (19:47.661)
that counseling had on us. And so if I sound like I'm boasting a lot about Ernie, it's because he means a lot to us. And we quite frankly would not be married to some degree, I don't think, had he not intervened at very strategic moments. But what I would say is that one of the things that I had to learn is that for me, communication is not a want, it's a need. I feel like I want to, like I need to talk about
how I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, what I'm experiencing. And Dayanna is just kind of like, she's just more internal in the way that she processes. And so we would get into arguments and whenever she would go quiet, it would feel like I was being abandoned. And to some degree it still does today because we're still working through stuff. originally, the difference is that it would take days before and now it's just hours. I'm getting better. We're both getting better.
I'm getting better at creating less moments for you not to talk to me. But all that to say is that I did not know how to handle that in a healthy way. I mean, I would go into rage because it would hurt so much. And so what Ernie taught me was very early on, and I still use this principle today, is that we're allowed to have that space between arguments, but there has to be an agreement that we're coming back to it, right?
Ryan Simpson (20:52.903)
Yeah
David Morillo (21:17.068)
that there's a time limit on it. can't be infinite. And it can't be, you know, punishment in that way that she can spend days not talking. And I would say that for me, that was of many of the things that were shared, there's so many more, but that has been like a lifesaver for me in the marriage because I know to give Dayanna space when she needs that space because we're going to come back to talk to it. And for me, it was, you know,
basically that my opinion and my thoughts matter because growing up in our family didn't communicate that way. Like, oh, how are you feeling? How did this make you feel? So for me, it was something that I had to learn as an adult and being able, you know, and having somebody because I've been in some really messed up relationships, but having somebody who wants to hear my thoughts, who wants to know how I'm feeling, that wasn't the norm for me. For me, it was, you know, keep quiet and just don't make things too complicated so they don't leave me type of thing. But for him, he wanted that.
but I didn't know how to give it to him. So through counseling, I was basically taught that and made known that my opinion and what I feel really does matter. So for me, it was that. It was not staying quiet because for me, I'm like, hey, I can not talk. I'm okay with not talking. And it would go on for days. I just want to say, Ernie, it worked too well. Yeah, because now I...
And now I do right away. And you know what the funny part is, is that we've taught our daughters that. So now our daughters will come up and be like, I tell you how I'm feeling? And we're both like, man, here it comes. Because we're teaching our daughters that now, like we want to know your thoughts. If we say something that hurt you, we want to know. So now they're very good at telling us what they think. Which if I could say this and kind of hijack the interview, but...
Ernie Reilly (22:53.077)
Thank
David Morillo (23:07.4)
I don't think that we could have imagined by any scale the generational impact that doing all of this counseling would have on our lives and our families because we've been able to step into some really difficult situations with the tools that we've learned through counseling to be able to share those with other people, which is kind of like a weird thing.
it most shows up in our daughters, which is why I'm eternally grateful that there is an Ernie that exists and that God had placed him in our lives.
Ernie Reilly (23:47.145)
Thank you.
Ryan Simpson (23:49.284)
Well good for you guys for being willing to, you know, bring, just bring everything into the light, right, and go through this. But to be clear for the listeners, was this all in pre-marital? And you guys were good to go in your marriage and, and, and you sailing? Okay, alright, can you clarify that?
David Morillo (24:02.67)
no, no, no, no, no. He might get a call next week. After this episode. No, I would say foundationally that was some of the stuff that was covered in pre-marital counseling, but I would be remiss to say, like I would be lying if I said that Ernie has been someone that we have called regularly.
Ernie Reilly (24:09.909)
Thank
David Morillo (24:30.742)
when we've needed tune-ups. You know, it's interesting, this is a weird metaphor, but it kind of came to mind when I was thinking about the pre-marital counseling, because we're in a house now that we purchased and we built from the ground up. And as part of the building process, we did a home inspection. Before we ever lived in the house, we did a home inspection to find out if there was anything that needed to kind of be repaired and fixed prior to us moving in to ensure that it was kind of safe and so forth. And it's just kind of like,
We do that for homes, but we don't do that for our marriages. And you know, like the average person is moving every three to five years and probably more in this economy, who knows. But at the end of the day, like this is a forever for us and we need it to keep getting home inspections. And so once the house is built, we've done additional inspections where because of the familiarity, Ernie knowing both Dan and I individually because we've had individual counseling sessions.
and we've had corporate counseling sessions, he knows how, and we both feel very safe. Is that the right word? I don't wanna say safe in the sense of, because I think everyone processes different, but I think he's created a vulnerable space where we can just say what we need to say, even if what comes back as us might hurt us, because it's not what we wanna hear.
vulnerable spaces I guess what I want to say there, but yeah, we've had to come in a few times Yeah, so it was premarital counseling and then the first three years of our marriage was super difficult where we were ready to sign the enoma papers You're ready to go through all that So we did see Ernie regularly for the first three years and then I would say after that It was individual for me in regards to when we were trying to have a child We couldn't get pregnant
and it was five years into the marriage. So I saw Ernie individually to kind of go through that process of accepting and kind of processing what it was that God was doing. For me, was, he would always ask me the same question. He's like, is God's will perfect? Would you rather have God's will versus your will?
David Morillo (26:48.588)
And it was funny because, and I don't know if you remember Ernie, but you would ask me the same question every time we went and I would answer. And it's like, no, I think for you it was like, you didn't believe that I knew that what I was answering was correct. So after a few sessions, I kept thinking I would go back and be like, he keeps asking me the same question I keep answering. But it was a process for me. Like I had to go down that road in order to process everything that was going on because it was a very difficult time. There was nothing wrong with him. It was me.
So it was really difficult for me at least and I did counseling individually and then we did what we call tune-ups here and there throughout our marriage. I would say for me, when I stepped into the marriage, I was hiding a lot of stuff. I was hiding things around how I was stewarding my finances. I was hiding things around addictions that were in my life that I never had disclosed in our relationship.
And all of that stuff came into the marriage with us. And so there was those first few years that it was just really brutal and just required a lot of help. I remember, this is not a reflection on Ernie that we had to keep going to counseling all those years. It's just that we weren't putting into practice what he was telling us, which is funny because...
Ryan Simpson (28:10.215)
Hmm.
David Morillo (28:13.378)
I would tell Dayanna all the time, it's just like, I wish there was a version of Ernie that can come live with us, but there's not. We have to kind of come figure this out, like apply this stuff, right? Because all he can do is write a prescription for the stuff that we're telling him hurts. But if we're not telling him all the stuff, if we're not coming all the way out, then he's solving for giving me Tylenol for something that needs something stronger, right? And so...
Ryan Simpson (28:23.046)
Yeah.
David Morillo (28:41.486)
and he's not giving medicine, it's a metaphor just in case. He's not prescribing anything. I just felt like I needed to put that asterisk out there. I don't wanna blow you up, Ernie. all that to say is the early years were phenomenal counseling that we weren't listening to.
Ryan Simpson (28:46.087)
Thanks.
Ryan Simpson (29:00.881)
Ernie, I'm curious, can you speak to what the tune-up sessions are like now versus maybe some of those earlier sessions and how you've seen them grow over the years and maybe start to apply some of the things that they're talking about?
Ernie Reilly (29:15.349)
Sure, sure. Let me first start by just saying it's such an honor to walk through counseling with couples who really come in and they're trying and such. they're talking about having struggles and maybe not implementing things. It's hard to come in and just start implementing things. You're really starting to work on even just acknowledging the things and then start to peel.
peel down a little bit further, a little bit further. So certainly in counseling, whether you're working with kids, teenagers, adults, couples, you're frequently trying to decrease the frequency of the issues, decrease the intensity of the issues, and decrease the duration. And increase the frequency of good things and increase the intensity of good things and increase the duration of good things, right? But even if you decrease the frequency,
You're still going to have some frequency, very likely. There's probably, you know, it's hard to get it down to zero. Now, hopefully you can get it down to zero. That's what you're trying to do. And hopefully you can get that intensity down and the bounce back. Hopefully you can get that, you know, it doesn't take long to bounce back. Like what David and Dayanna were talking about. Now there might be some issues, but like it takes a minute. It takes, you know, it takes 10 minutes and boom, we bounce back. That is so much better than 10 days.
10 minutes, right? So much better. So that duration has decreased significantly. But there's still some duration sometimes. There's still some intensity and there's still some frequency. So when that frequency starts to bump up a bit, right? Or the intensity starts to get up or the duration starts to get up, you may come back in. The other thing is just like any athlete, you get really good at level one and then you move on to like
Now you're a travel ball or now you're doing this right now you're going to you know You're level 10 like I have a son level 10 gymnast right that's harder than level 7 Right, you know, you're 7 8 9 each each part of life You go into new stuff and that new stuff takes even more to do Even harder so so seeing it's such an honor to see a couple walkthrough stuff be willing to keep at it keep trying
Ernie Reilly (31:40.275)
in this day of when people just throw things away, it's not working perfectly, I just throw it away, to have people that just really want to try to make this work and willing to keep trying. And they're great examples of when you keep doing that and you keep coming back and you keep coming back and you keep trying and you tweak and you tweak and you tweak, you find your way through it. So it's just a real neat thing to see. Did I answer your question, Ryan?
Ryan Simpson (32:07.495)
Yes, and I think we're going to get into a little more of it too, but it looks like David wants to say something.
Ernie Reilly (32:09.695)
Okay.
David Morillo (32:13.9)
No, no, no, I just get excited when earnings starts using metaphors.
Ryan Simpson (32:19.399)
Gifted analogist that is that is for sure. I don't know if that's a word. I just made it up, but we'll coin it later Was there I'm curious David and Dayanna was there a specific aha moment or maybe turning point as you were going through this counseling process and continue to With with Ernie that changed how you either saw each other or saw the situation you were in together
David Morillo (32:21.706)
Yes.
Yeah.
David Morillo (32:44.59)
Let me talk about the whiteboard again. The whiteboard for me was one of the things. Early on after we were married, we went in together and Ernie had a whiteboard in his office and he had us go up and draw something on the whiteboard and it would be, know, it would be, I don't know if he went first or I went first, I can't remember. But I know that David would draw something on the opposite side of where I was, but I would want to draw something where he was, like...
to kind of like connect with him and whatever. But I noticed that every time I tried to go here, he went over here and then he would go like opposite to where I was basically. So it helped me understand that, you know, for him coming into the marriage, like he didn't have to be accountable to anybody. you know, never shared with me where, what he was doing or where he was gonna be hanging out or anything like that. So it kind of helped me understand that he was never really accountable to anybody. So coming into this marriage,
I think he didn't think that he needed to kind of let me into the world that I don't know. And I was left kind of guessing where he was, which wasn't a great feeling when you first get married. So for me, was kind of understanding where he's from. I he left his home when you were what, 13? Or younger? 18. 18? When you were out in the streets when? Early, right? Yeah, early. for me, it was kind of understanding all that because I didn't really know his...
full background on the way that he was raised, really until we started getting close to our wedding and then things were starting to kind of come out that I was just like, I didn't know about all this. So in our marriage, I was still learning things about him. So that was helpful for me at least to know that he's just not used to accountability or letting somebody fully into his life. And that's something that I had to be patient about.
You? I think I'm processing letter real time. Reframe that question for me.
Ryan Simpson (34:49.435)
Was there a specific moment or like a moment you remember in the counseling process where you maybe had like an epiphany or something really pivoted for you where you changed your approach or you understood something new about yourself or Diana?
David Morillo (35:02.594)
Yeah, yeah, I would say, it was one session. And again, I lead with this because it was just, it's a silly thing that kind of stays in my brain, but the way that I move is just, I'm counts constantly like bouncing from event and to event and moment to moment in kind of just being fully present wherever I'm at. And what would end up happening is that I would exclude that information from Dayanna, often. then.
At the time, because I was alone so often, I would go to the movies by myself to just kind of escape and think. I would go to the park by myself to read a book or whatever. And I would just never have to tell anyone where I was going. And I just remember Ernie saying again, like, this is silly, but like, hey, man, if you're to like put mustard on your hot dog, you probably don't got to tell her that. But like, if you're going to go to the movies, like that's something different in your day, you might want to tell her.
that you're going through the movie. And I don't know why that was such a silly thing that kind of, it clicked for me because I think in pictures, so it helped me to kind of frame like where the line was of communication for me of like, yeah, if you're go to the bathroom, like don't tell her, like you don't need to tell her that. But something extraordinary is happening out of the norm. Like it's not normal that I go to the movies every day. It's not normal that I go to the park every day. Like those kind of things. And that's just kind of like the light stuff that.
I can remember. But that was super helpful about inviting her into my world. And actually, it's a practice that I still have today to a large degree is trying to make sure that I'm inclusive in what I'm experiencing and where I'm going.
Ryan Simpson (36:48.849)
So that sounds like a specific growth area in communication, which is a fantastic segue into my next question actually, because communication is one of the biggest things that couples come in to work on most consistently, and then we dig into the stuff underneath. Were there things you learned about communication, or maybe even resolving conflict, that surprised you? Things maybe you didn't expect, or things didn't work the way you thought that they would?
David Morillo (37:20.994)
think I shared mine. Dayanna's processing of situations was really helpful to go through counseling to understand it, with having a third party there to help lend me language around what I was experiencing. I had never been in relationship like this and I had never, it was just, never been married before. I never had any of these long-term.
Situation so any other previous relationship I could just retreat to a neutral corner, right? Even prior to marriage we could just retreat to our own spaces But when you're living with someone it's like it doesn't matter the square footage It just feels too small when you're not talking when there's conflict And if I didn't have the opportunity because like I shared it sounds absurd But it's a need for me to communicate if I didn't understand that she needed space to process and if that if I were to give her that That I would get what I wanted
from it that then I think I don't know that I could have been with her all of this time because it was that important to me and it hurt so much in the beginning when I didn't understand it because it literally like to me it translated to abandonment. Like we were in the middle of something together and this person chose to take their ball and stop playing like in the middle of like the thing and it was just kind of the sense of just like what just happened?
Something is something, but when there's nothing, then I think as people, we're left to tell the worst version of the stories in our own imagination. And I got a really turd of an imagination, so I would just make up really bad stories. anyways, that was mine. Yeah, pretty much. I'm sorry, Ernie, you want to say something?
Ernie Reilly (39:07.475)
I was just going to make a quick comment on David's point there and it connects with your point earlier. It's super, super common for couples to have what we call the pursuer and the distancer. And so one pursues and one distances. And so usually when that's occurring, the one who's pursuing has, I've got to do this. I feel abandoned. I've got to do this. I've got to connect in order to repair. The other one,
I've got to have this space to keep it from going bad. I'm protecting, I'm protecting. So both are trying to protect the relationship. I need some time because this is, I don't know how to navigate through this and it's going to go badly if I don't have this space. And this other one, I need this now. So if they can each agree or understand each other, then one...
can get their space but know that they need to return as soon as they can because this one's over here. I need it, I need it. So they return and as long as this person knows they're gonna return, they can go... They can breathe, they can slow down and they know, hey we're coming back to this, we'll be okay. Short-term we might have a struggle, long-term we're gonna be good. We're gonna return to this and we're gonna resolve it. So that's a really common big
thing that we see in it's one of many but that's one of the things that we kind of slow it down look at it and see how this is playing out and for David and Diana they're talking about how that was just so important for them to get that piece right and when they had that piece right so many other pieces could fall into place
David Morillo (40:52.206)
I think, just to add this on before you say what you were gonna say, that there was another, because when you were talking, you kind of rattled something. There was another point to, that I believe came through our counseling sessions, which was, is this person intending to harm me? Because this person may hurt me, but are they intending to harm me? And harm is different than hurt.
And in that sense of there's an intentionality of maliciousness kind of to the harm, like I'm intentionally going in to do this thing to you. Or is this person kind of like a porcupine just trying to protect themselves and in protecting themselves, they're gonna hurt you, right? It might not say something the right way, but if I can find that part of the relationship that at the foundation, I know Deanna loves me. She would never want to harm me.
And I believe that, not like trying to convince myself. Then it's easy to kind of move past that and so many other references I can make, but I don't want to monopolize this, but yeah. No, I was gonna agree with you and what Ernie said. As the one that doesn't wanna, I don't process the way he does. I need time to process. And if I'm in the heat of a moment of in a discussion or a debate or whatever you would want to call it,
I don't want to say something that I'm not going to be able to take back. So if I need some time just to get my thoughts together and make sure that my words don't hurt him, then I want to be able to take that spot, you know, that time. But knowing that I have to give him, and this is one of things that you would always tell me, Ernie, is if you're going to take your time, that's fine, but give him a time when you were going to come back to it. Don't just go and take days and not come back, but like give, be like, okay, well, I need until tomorrow.
continue talking tonight, you know, that was something very important because I'm in my head, I'm like, well, if I can take my time, we'll just wait for the next issue to come and I'll just call both of them together. But no, it was important for me to go back and be like, okay, give me until tomorrow, give me until later. So that was like really important as well.
Ryan Simpson (42:59.943)
You
Ernie Reilly (43:09.609)
definitely.
Ryan Simpson (43:11.107)
So as you continue to work on your relationship, and there's consistent tune-ups, what would you say has been the biggest change in your relationship today from the day after your wedding?
David Morillo (43:28.854)
we have, speaking for myself, Dayanna's not a project for me to fix. I went because how we entered this thing, there was love there. There was always love. As dysfunctional as it was, it was love. I could not see my life without her, which is what led to this position of like, let's get married. But what I think happened throughout this process is I discovered how to fall in love with her, where I didn't need her to be anything.
other than who she was. And so it created space for me through the counseling, through all the years, that I can discover who she is and how beautifully and wonderfully she's made. And that there's a designer that took great intention in making her the way that she is. And so that process has been beautiful to me throughout all these years, because the counseling, what it has done is has lent me language to help
me with the experience of discovering her. But really, once we're out of the sessions, I still have to practice. I still have to show up every day. I still have to make that choice. And that was quite beautiful. And as an asterisk ADHD off ramp here is I want to say that the tuneups aren't always because we're in crisis. Sometimes like when you go get an oil change, you don't go get an oil change because your car is messed up.
You go get an oil change to prevent the car from getting messed up. And so it's just like for me, sometimes we'll go to, and I feel like this was an important clarifying point and we kind of hit it a few times and I didn't want to miss it this time, is that sometimes we'll go to earning not because we're in crisis, but it's just good to get a calibration. Can you read, let me know the question again.
Ryan Simpson (45:20.539)
What would you say has been the biggest change in your marriage, how it functions, how you relate to each other today versus the day after your wedding?
David Morillo (45:27.672)
Mm-hmm.
So for me, think, you know, besides what we went through in the beginning, think becoming parents and now being parents of a 12 and 13 year old has been very interesting. But for me, it's been amazing to see David as a dad because he didn't really have a good example of the dad that he is now. And I know for a fact that what we've gone through in our marriage has
Ryan Simpson (45:37.287)
That's a pretty big deal.
David Morillo (45:59.895)
has made him the dad that he is now, the love for God that he has, love for Jesus, has made him the dad that he is to our girls, because let me tell you, whoever marries our daughters are going to have something, you know, that they have to kind of keep in mind of who he is and what they're used to, how they're used to being treated and loved, which I definitely admire. So for me, it's been great just seeing him, not only us getting closer as husband and wife, but also him being the dad that he is to our girls.
That has been the biggest change. I think this season of the girls being the ages that they are and what they go through as young ladies at this age has been interesting to see, but I've also seen how we're a team and we're able to kind of go into this as a team, regardless of what they play off of each other, which is very interesting at times, but we're a team and I think that's...
been one of the most beautiful things this season that I've been able to see that I'm not alone in this parenting thing that we're together. Not so I think that that's a direct I can create a direct line to the tools that we were gifted with through counseling. Putting them into practice over and over again helped us to come to a place where we can trust one another, where we can create margin for one another's kind of like shortcomings and
Also, no moments that require encouragement. I know we're talking about some of the hard stuff, you know, the five love language thing with Gary Chapman or whatever, you my thing is words of affirmation and Dayanna's acts of service and having her oftentimes speak life to me in moments where I feel down and discouraged that she, she feels safe to do that is a beautiful gift. And again, I can draw a straight line to
not only crisis and counseling, but all of the times that we've invested in our marriage to continue to grow in it. And by the way, yeah, when you add kids to the mix, you definitely need support. think about counseling like when you got kids.
Ernie Reilly (48:08.147)
you
Yeah, most definitely. So one of the things with, you know, when a couple is willing to do the small, steady habits daily, keep working on those things, they check in with each other instead of checking out, you know, forgive fast, right? And apologize fast and forgive even faster, right? You know, try to be quick to resolve things. Realizing conflict is not.
something that necessarily is avoided as David's saying before. Sometimes the person, it may hurt when you're walking through something, but they're not trying to harm you. It's the two of them against the problem, not the two of them against each other. And so they've been doing this now over and over and over. So when they bring kids in, yeah, it's a bigger challenge. They're ready to step, okay, now we're at the Olympics. Now we're at the, know, Worlds, right?
David Morillo (49:08.238)
Jeez, Ernie, please. Hopefully it doesn't get any harder, but it will.
Ernie Reilly (49:09.237)
There it is, now we're stepping up the level each time.
Yeah, it does get harder. I mean, there's all sorts of sorts of things that you you you what's next, you know, there's got illnesses, you know, you got all sorts of stuff that can that can come in and it can be it can be struggles and and you know, what's neat is David and Dayanna also they didn't just take their stuff and just we're good. Now we're going to go hide over here. They did have kids. They did impact their families. They did impact their churches.
Ryan Simpson (49:15.367)
You
David Morillo (49:25.08)
Yeah.
Ernie Reilly (49:44.307)
They did impact other people's lives. David's working with guys who, know, all the side work that he does, he's working with guys who are like fatherless, right? Helping them and is pouring into women, helping them with their lives, right? And that's a lot of stuff that they've been able to impact other people because they were willing to do the small steady habits. They're willing to invest that time because it mattered. The reason we invest is because it matters. We invest
in things that matter and they've invested in their relationship really willing to do what it takes to get good at it. Not like good at it, now we got there, we're done, look at us, right? But we're ready to take that next step and do even harder stuff.
David Morillo (50:31.842)
Yeah, I think like it's so funny like I I have all of these random kind of like tools around because I've bought them separately and then like I found this super sale on this one kit that has like a Thousand and one tools whatever you know, the thing is and by the way, I'm not handy at all It's just the illusion of feeling like I have the tools makes me feel good But if I needed to fix something or break something because that's tendency of what I what I do
Ryan Simpson (50:57.607)
you
David Morillo (51:01.484)
I have the tools, but if I don't have the tool that I specifically need for that job because I've never encountered it before, I know where to find it. And that's where to me, like counseling comes in, is I know where to find the help when I need the help. And that's what it's afforded us.
Ryan Simpson (51:21.327)
I love that. if someone was listening, they were considering marriage counseling or thought maybe this would be good for us. What would you say to that person?
David Morillo (51:27.054)
Yeah, just do it. Just do it. I always believe that if both parties are willing to participate in counseling, to go ahead and do that, because that means that there's still hope. And if one is, but the other was not sure, but they do it anyway, you know, they agree to go to counseling anyway to do it, it's going to be hard. It's not easy.
It might not be one or two sessions, it might be one or two years that you have to go to counseling, but it's worth the work to save a love that you had for the person in the beginning, even if you don't feel it at that very moment. Because you don't ever want to ask yourself, if I would have tried it, that would have saved our marriage, would I have had a happier life? I'm not saying your marriage is going to be, you know, happily ever after, because it's still going to be work.
regardless of how many years you've been together, but it's worth the fight, it's worth the time, it's worth all of the work that you would have to do. So I would just say give it a try and you'll be surprised of the results that happen.
Ryan Simpson (52:38.545)
I'm glad you said that the way that you said that actually, because it gives me a question for Dr. Ernie. Do both people in the couple need to come to counseling at first for the marriage counseling to succeed? Or can one start? How do you approach something like that?
Ernie Reilly (52:57.855)
Yes, it's great if both will come. So that's definitely the ideal, right? If it's a couples issue, you want both there. However, even if one person is willing to come, they can start to change. And as one thing changes, like one of those mobiles that hang and you start to move this piece, it moves the other pieces. If you start to change something, one, this other person can start to see, wow, you are changing.
and they may decide, you know what, I'm gonna come join you. Or as you shift, some of their needs are starting to be met, they start to see, this is working, I can join this. So oftentimes, that will happen. some, you know, many times one person comes in and it's enough. However, ideally, you want both to come in.
Ryan Simpson (53:53.106)
Got it, okay. I just wanted to make sure, because I know there will be some people listening who are, you know, they're in, they believe in it, they want to invest in it. I don't want to make sure that that's a worthy effort. I would believe that it is.
Ernie Reilly (54:05.93)
One other thought to that, Ryan, one other thought is that sometimes you have someone and they don't know if they want. I don't know if I want this relationship. Usually what I will ask is, do you want to want it?
If they don't even want to want it, then we may be dealing with something, right? But if they want, if you at least want to want it, well if you want to want it, let's come in. Let's explore this.
David Morillo (54:35.39)
I'm gonna say something that feels like it's gonna sound a little controversial, but I don't mean it to be, is because Dayanna is not a project for me to fix, I feel like I would benefit from counseling anyway because I'm trying to grow as a person. And out of 100 % of a problem that we may experience as a couple, I have some ownership of some of it.
whether it be 2 % or 50 % or 60 % or whatever the percentage is, there's something I could have improved in what I was doing in this relationship. I wanna be in a place where I take ownership for that regardless of how Dayanna reacts or responds to me because I wanna grow as a person. And I know that everyone has to get to their own place with that, but I can just say for me out loud, if Dayanna chose to never go to marriage counseling,
I would still go personally because I'm not being the man that I long to be. And that line that you just said, Ernie, is such a beautiful one that I actually pray all the time to God sometimes when I feel distracted is this, want to want you. But there are things that are pulling in my affection and I don't know how to get out of it. I don't know how to get out of my own way in certain circumstances. And I don't think that counseling is someone giving you answers.
but it's someone coming alongside you, helping you to discover what that answer is. Now they may give you tools and tips and tricks and language to help you discover, but Ernie, for the most part, illuminated something that was already true present. I just couldn't see it and I didn't have language for it. But he wasn't fixing me. Dayanna wasn't fixing me.
I had to do the work with the information that was provided. So I would just say, if you didn't ask, but if somebody were thinking this, even if your partner's in a place where they're not willing to go to counseling, it still benefits you because you're gonna grow as a person. And I believe that that will help bring transformation to the relationship.
David Morillo (56:55.618)
But even if it doesn't, in the worst case scenario if it doesn't, you're still left with you in any other relationship in life. So why not try to grow to be the best version of you? And that can be helped through counseling. I hope, I don't know if that's controversial, I don't know what that is, but catch it if you wanna edit it, if you don't, I don't know.
Ernie Reilly (57:13.077)
It's powerful. good. Good stuff.
Ryan Simpson (57:17.595)
No, it's great. mean, yeah, it's accountability, right? And at the end of the day, relationships are the merging of two people, especially marriage into one, which means that the growth of one will inevitably grow the other in some way. I think that is just how it's designed.
David Morillo (57:35.343)
Geez, layer in family dynamics, economics, geography, layer in church. Church has its own dynamic. Whatever flavor of Christian you are, whatever flavor, whatever you are, that comes with its own thing. And we bring all of that into a relationship and it's just like, good luck. Good luck. Yeah, it's like, man, this is a mess here. We gotta unscramble some of this stuff and figure out what's our story.
Ryan Simpson (57:52.475)
Mm-hmm.
Ernie Reilly (57:55.594)
Yeah.
David Morillo (58:04.568)
Can I share a stupid story? First few years of our marriage, this was always topical in Ernie. First few years of our marriage, Dayanna grew up like Griswold's Christmas, right? Like lights and like reindeers and like all this other stuff. And I had Charlie Brown's Christmas, right? Like the tree that's like got the one thing and like.
Ernie Reilly (58:19.645)
you
David Morillo (58:27.746)
Gifts weren't wrapped, they just were in the bag. Like you got gifts, but they were just in the bag from the store. It was just give you. I will tell you that every October, around this time in fact, every October for the first three years, there would be epic fights in our marriage. Epic. Because I didn't understand who was looking at the Christmas tree when we weren't there, so why am I paying the light for it? I didn't understand all of this other stuff.
And one of the things that I had to discover, and it really came through the birth of our first child, was that we get to write our own story in this marriage. We don't have to live in the shadows of whatever we came up in, but we get to write our own stories. That came out in counseling. That was Ernie right there with his fingers and levels and all the analogies and metaphors. That's where that came from. And I'll tell you, it literally has transformed our
Ernie Reilly (59:18.261)
Thank
David Morillo (59:25.452)
our lives and now there's Christmas trees. I haven't put the Christmas lights yet, but there's Christmas trees and ornaments and other stuff because we saw Ernie. Good luck. Well, there you go, Ernie. hope you get a cut of Christmas trees across America.
Ryan Simpson (59:40.039)
Well, I think that's a fantastic place to wrap and now you got me excited for Christmas, so I'm gonna go get started on my decoration
David Morillo (59:49.01)
I don't know.
Ryan Simpson (59:50.459)
Well, I want talk to our listeners real quick. If you're in a place where you and your spouse or partner need help finding your way back to each other, marriage counseling can be a powerful step. Our team at the Counseling Corner is here to help couples reconnect, rebuild, renew their relationship and write your own stories together. So if that sounds interesting to you or you even just want to explore what that could look like, go ahead and visit us at the counselingcorner.net or give us a call, schedule an appointment. We've got offices in Orlando downtown.
Claremont and then Orange City as well and don't forget to follow us on Instagram Facebook and subscribe to the show on Spotify Apple or YouTube for more content like this I want to say thank you so much David and Dana for coming out sharing your story Being vulnerable with us. It takes a lot of courage and bravery one to do the work that you've done and then two to share it So thank you for the impact that you've had on each other on your family on your community and on us It means the world. So thank you so much
Ernie Reilly (01:00:50.869)
most definitely.
David Morillo (01:00:51.153)
You're Thank you for having us.
Ryan Simpson (01:00:52.771)
Absolutely. Well, if this conversation encouraged any of our listeners, please go ahead and share it with someone who maybe could use some encouragement themselves. You've been listening to Real Life Counseling, a podcast by the Counseling Quarter. Until next time, everybody, take care of yourself and the people you love. Have a great weekend.
Ernie Reilly (01:01:11.381)
Thank you guys.
Ryan Simpson (01:01:12.625)
Thank you.